My Story... (LONG)... Input helpful and I am happy to discuss.

[lawlessone2009]

Thanks Casehardened... Your information so far has been invaluable. I've been completely unsure of the differences between Scotland and England and Wales...

I was worried that since I had actually been charged it meant that more likely than not there would be a trial. It has also let me formulate, indirectly, another bit of defence information/witness statement that I am going to need.

Horrific time and yesterday was a nightmare. I was at my partners parents house and they enquired, today, if I was ill or something. My partner said yes. My partners mother knows about the allegation but I think she seriously underestimates the effects it's having on my life and my thoughts. It's eating me from the inside out!

I did honestly believe that the burden of proof lay with the prosecutor but it feels as if it's entirely in my park and it's a real struggle!

I can only hope that this is all drawn to a conclusion sooner rather than later. I'm only just over a month into a possible YEARs worth of waiting though...

[lawlessone2009]

I'm still here and still reading and still learning.

This place actually seems to increase the pressures but at the same time alleviates the doubts. Strange...

I suppose I never took my position so seriously. I'm not a very serious person. I couldn't believe the situation I found myself in and I really really couldn't believe that I was charged.

There was a long spell in court when I was in the holding cells that eventually resulted in the Police Bail. I thought things had finally been sorted and my version of events proven to be true...

The actual appearance in court shattered that belief, which inevitably ended up in me finding this place.......

I STILL can't believe this is really happening! I cannot believe that a fellow human being would be capable of such hurt and lies.

It has taken this long to get to where I am just now, a realisation that in all probability I will be going to trial before a jury. I don't think I am going to be able to manage it.

I have however one question at the moment that is burning in my head:

My parents dealt with these people outside their house on the evening in question, after the alleged incident. My mother says that the 'story' evolved in front of her. The accuser and her friends have stated that they didn't leave the flat where it all happened.

My question (?):

1. Is my mother a witness?

She witnessed first hand the 'building' of the 'story'. She also witnessed the accuser being where she said she wasn't...

2. The Police are treating all of this seperately... Why?

Is it the fact that my mothers possible statement discredits the version that they are charging on? I would've thought that a proper investigation would have taken account of ALL evidence... I understand the vandalism to the car being kept separate but surely my mum would tend to provide immediate evidence of doubt?


3. What credibility does a mother have as a witness?



Sorry to go on....... I just have too many questions..... I'm attempting to separate them all out and decide on which ones to ask, the ones I am not sure about. I have answers in my head but 'logic' is hard to come by with my own circumstances...

[gem]

hi as far as i am aware your mother can be a witness for the defence.i myself was going to be a witness for my son but i wasn.t needed in the end as the accuser admitted she had known my son before the alleged rape in the court. she denied it before then. i was going to testify that she had known him for several years. so hopefully they will use this in your defence. you need to contact your solicitor and he will take a statement from your mother, and give it to your barrister to use hopefully. you are not alone. everybody on here has been through this torment all asking the same question why.....i know this does not stop your hurt but just letting you know we all feel your pain we are all supporting you, keep talking it helps to share the burden

[Casehardened]

Its a judgement call really: should the case get as far as a trial would you elicit sympathy from the jury because of the mob besieging your parents house (presumably hoping to confront you); or might they form the view 'if all those people think he did it....'

On the other hand, again if it gets to trial, the objective will be to prove your accuser is lying. Do you mean that the accuser's statement says she didn't leave the flat yet your mother saw her amongst the mob?

My mother says that the 'story' evolved in front of her. The accuser and her friends have stated that they didn't leave the flat where it all happened.

My question (?):

1. Is my mother a witness?

She witnessed first hand the 'building' of the 'story'. She also witnessed the accuser being where she said she wasn't...

If so, then this would be useful evidence, however (not having read the accuser's statement) under cross-examination, would she be able to 'clarify' this by explaining that what she actually meant that she didn't leave the flat while 'he' was in there?

Obviously this must be yours, and your legal teams call, but my instinct is that this all adds unnecessary complications; after all you would really want the jury to concentrate on what did, or didn't, happen in the flat.

[Rights Fighter]

Ask mum to write a statement (preferably in bullet points so it is easier to read than an essay/letter) and give this to your solicitor - he or she can then make the decision as to whether she can be useful to defence or not. If they decide they can use her they will then prepare a statement for her to read, agree and sign.

Be aware though as if any passing OIC is reading this they may attempt to snaffle her for themselves, and then on the first day of trial mysteriously "drop" her, so defence cannot then cross-examine.

Best that the defence get in first. Quickly.

[lawlessone2009]

Well, I grew impatient and ruined another one of my mums evenings last nite by calling her and discussing everything, AGAIN...

RF:

My mum has already presented a statement to the solicitor outlining everything....... She wouldn't be willing to work with the Police in any manner that would damage my position in so far as a witness for them would be concerned. My mother did, at the time I was being interviewed, speak with the Police outside of the interview room towards the end of my interview when they had a break. The Officer doing the interview had a discreet ear piece in ALL THE TIME and must've been receiving info. He briefly spoke with my mother then came in and asked me some further questions in such a way that there was no possibility I could lie with the answers. He seemed more than happy with the answers and his attitude changed towards me. He, of course, did charge me but that would've happened anyway. He doesn't seem to be willing to get my mother involved as a statement from her would have to be relayed to the accuser etc (mums words) which the Officer indicated to my mother as possibly damaging for my defence as it gives them time to change their story slightly. My mum indicates that the Officer made it clear to her that he doesn't believe entirely the accuser and that he is giving them ample time to 'hang themselves' (not literally!) by changing crucial parts of their statement. Clearly they know more than me so I can't really confirm what they are thinking, there IS an issue with the case somewhere though and I am not certain what. Suppose in time I will find out.

Casehardened:

The girl that's made the allegation is stating that she never left the flat after the incident. My mother and father can testify that this isn't true. I am supposing that the girl made this statement due to the damage to my brothers car... Since the contrary is true it does cast a little doubt on a piece of her statement but what impact that has on the rest is debatable...

gem:

Thanks for giving me your perspective. More than helpful. Not got a 'barrister' yet, still to see if it's actually going to trial which I am reading as a positive. Doing as much research to ready myself regardless. Struggling with information though as depression/anxiety keeps creeping in.... It's good to know I am not alone and others are here to help.

[Rights Fighter]

He, of course, did charge me but that would've happened anyway.

Not necessarily.

Get your mum to your solicitor asap.

[gem]

when i made my statement i made it to my sons solicitor. not the police. i don.t think it has anything to do with the police if your mum goes as a witness it is not up to them they are part of the prosecution not the defence ...

[Rights Fighter]

Gem, I have known the police snaffle helpful defence witnesses and then they've been told they cannot talk to the defendant or any of his supporters/witnesses about the case as they are now witnesses for the Crown.

At trial these witnesses are suddenly dropped which means it is too late for defence to question them in front of the jury. It's a well known tactic they use - hence my strong advice to get mum to the solicitor asap or failing that get her to make a bullet-pointed statement making it as comprehensive as possible, get that to the sol who should then be able to form an opinion as to whether she should be used, or not.

I think she should.

[gem]

ok sorry RF didn.t know that i just know we had a vital witness for our defence who would not cooperate and police would not get involved they told us we need to speak to our own solicitor as defence witnesses had nothing to do with them.

[Rights Fighter]

Thank goodness that witness in your case refused to cooperate!

Sometimes the police will convince or try to convince a potential defence witness that they must become witnesses for the Crown. If the witness doesn't know any different then sometimes they just accept it.

[lawlessone2009]

Thank you for both your inputs.

One thing though, surely my mother would be pretty.... Na, wait a minute... I see now. Thanks RF, I have caught the trick. That's a sneaky one I've never seen before but logically it makes sense.

My mother has written a comprehensive statement of everything she knows. I will enquire whether this has been passed into the solicitor or not and if not then insist that it is. Thanks for letting me in on that sneaky trick, I'd never have thought about it.

I was pretty certain that when an allegation is made in Scotland it more or less automatically results in a 'charge' unless it's seriously not credible. What happens 'after' the charge is where the real ground work seems to be done as oppose to the English system setup...

The Police tended to indicate that if the accusation was false then they WOULD be pursuing the girl and her friends. It's strange to explain but it was the way they put it, as if I was fodder for them to carry out an alternative agenda. I am probably wrong of course.

[Rights Fighter]

I don't pretend to know anything about Scots law. However, I do know about the tricks that the police will sometimes pull.

Some years ago I tried to help with an appeal. One of the potential defence witnesses found out he was a witness for the Crown and was told he was not to make any sort of contact with the defence side.

On the first day of trial he showed up and was told that he was not needed. He went home.

The def had a **** sol and barrister who did not make any enquiries about this witness prior to trial even through they would have been aware that he was due to be used (well that was the pretence of course).

When I went to stay with the family I went through all of the paperwork the family had, which included this one witness's statement that suddenly appeared in the very important "unused bundle" right at the last minute. The family were astounded as to what this guy had (allegedly) written as he had been really good mates with the def.

I suggested they contact the guy as the trial was obviously long ago now done and dusted with the client sitting in his prison cell. The witness willingly came round while I was there. I asked him a few questions, the last one being: "you are so supportive of Mr D, so why on earth would you write such a damning witness statement?"

He looked at it and was furious. This was the (police) typed up version of notes taken by the police. He said that they had twisted this, misunderstood that, he never said that, this never happened and basically it was all a load of old cobblers.

I tried to use this as an abuse of process argument as clearly this guy SHOULD have been used by the defence to

a) show that the police were less than honest

b) that this "bad character" that was to be used against the def in fact was completely untrue.

We could not use this at appeal because the defence should have made use of him pre-trial as there is no property in a witness: and the solicitor would have known that and the def should have insisted.

The fact that the def was in a right state and could not think straight did not come into it at all.

CA are not interested in the fact that an honest innocent def who has never been in trouble with the law before cannot think clearly when in this terrible situation.

[lawlessone2009]

Thank you RF. I really appreciate the time you are giving me and also the invaluable information. I am managing to log it in my head.

I'm busying myself doing a little 'background' on the accuser and her cousin. It appears that my 'comment' regarding their brother/cousin (the one that committed suicide) is the killer for me. I'm surprised they spoke to me at all after the comment as it would've been raw in their minds. I would've literally murdered someone that said that about my brother in the circumstances! I can't believe what I said! I might as well have been stabbing the two of them! I can also understand why the 'turn' was so bad and resulted in where I am...

I've found me the key now I need to find the lock...

[lawlessone2009]

Last night I discovered information that is going to hopefully destroy any chances of a successful prosecution.

I discovered this information thanks to all of you guys on here. Piecing together the wealth of knowledge and throwing in a little piece of personally found information I have completely picked apart the case against me and actually discovered that there is a strong possibility that some glaring mistakes and incompetence by the Police could mean that a malicious prosecution may take place.

I've sure as hell pissed off enough in officialdom to make a prosecution a likelyhood but then we will ultimately see. Over the next period of time I am going to assemble the information into a reasonably understandable writing and make it available for all to view. It may be that my information is of no use to me in the end but it really could help others that find themselves in a nightmare of a situation and have been treated like vermin by the state.

Thank you guys.