Stage 2 Delays

[sinkingnfast]

Hi all

My stage 2/defence report was due last month but was extended to the 8th Jan (tomorrow), this is due to a request for a disclosure of all phone evidence (at my solicitors request), it seems yet again this hasn't been provided, anyone else had similar or any advice regarding this?

Thanks

[Bob1234]

Hello there.

Sorry to say I have no advice but I am in a very very similar position to you. I'm due trial very soon however still waiting for all disclosure and we have requested the same as you in regards to mobile device. Unfortunatly this seems to be quite normal (even though it shouldn't be).

Bob

[sinkingnfast]

Sorry to hear that Bob, you'll have to keep me updated, I'm just waiting to hear back from my solicitor now, what date is your trial set for?

[sinkingnfast]

Well yet more disclosure delays, the CPS have till 4pm today to provided requested downloads etc, if they don't then my solicitor has to put this to a 'mention hearing' where the CPS/Police have to explain why this hasn't happened.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

[Peter1975]

No personal experience but with all the cases involving phone downloads in the news lately I would hope that your team will get everything and be given the time to assess it properly.

Let us know how it goes.

[Bob1234]

Well yet more disclosure delays, the CPS have till 4pm today to provided requested downloads etc, if they don't then my solicitor has to put this to a 'mention hearing' where the CPS/Police have to explain why this hasn't happened.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I am in the same position, my team were supposed to receive the contents of my phone from the cps last week however we still have not! its just over a month till my trial, can we do anything? we have chased them up but nothing.

why are they play such a game, i can't sleep or even think straight is there anything i can do? even if they do hand it over it may even be last minute, we haven't even got the "victims" phone details yet, what if there is something proving me right on there?

[sinkingnfast]

I am in the same position, my team were supposed to receive the contents of my phone from the cps last week however we still have not! its just over a month till my trial, can we do anything? we have chased them up but nothing.

why are they play such a game, i can't sleep or even think straight is there anything i can do? even if they do hand it over it may even be last minute, we haven't even got the "victims" phone details yet, what if there is something proving me right on there?

I'm going all out to find what I can on Monday and will post back here as soon as I know Bob, have they even confirmed they'd dumped data?

Anyone know anything else on this? It's driving me crazy knowing there's info we need from these 'dumps' they claim to have done.

[Peter1975]

Sounds like your solicitor is on the ball.

The police are supposed to review the data and see if it is disclosable but your solicitor is probably asking if it should have been served already as it is the prosecution's duty to disclose anything that can assist the defence before stage 2.

Possible this is another case where the police have failed to disclose to the CPS as a vague mention of a data dump in the unused schedule suggests that no one is prepared to say what is in the data, making it more difficult to request in the DCS.

I'll look forward to your update.

[Franticwithworry]

I feel for you sinkingfast. You'd think that with all the bad publicity the police and CPS would be falling over themselves to hand over stuff. Hope you get a result soon. Please let us know what happens.

[Bob1234]

sorry for the lack of knowledge here hence the question... what do you mean by "data dump"

[sinkingnfast]

Hi al thanks for the support, I'll keep you updated as I go.

Luckily I have a background in IT security so understand the process of obtaining data.

A data dump is when all information from a mobile device is dumped to a file (which is then usually printed off, poor trees right?), this used to be the whole lot but now the CPS/Police deem it to be from the date they assume is the start of any relationship with the FA.

In my case they took my phone and one of the FA's phones (well I presume so as I've only seen info from the one, but we'll get to that in a sec).

So 1st my phone, the OIC contacted me directly asking for more passwords (itunes etc) which I provided, they were still unable to dump data from my phone, despite asking me to even call them to help (my solicitor was surprised to say the least) , now this (at an estimated guess) will be down to the method they are using to dump the phone (software based backup recovery software), this wouldn't have worked for this device as I removed root keys and binded it to my personal devices some time ago, (told ya security background) and the person doing it clearly hadn't been trained or didn't have resources for a hardware data dump. Long story short they took photos instead.

The FA's phone was dumped and pages were produced.

So stage 1 is served with some photos of my phone and some data from hers, my solicitor and I looked over these and found straight away this to be incomplete, so requested everything (even specifying pages they had clearly left out etc, again this is where knowing where to look fits in). These documents favoured only the prosecution.
Questions were also asked to produce other unused evidence and explain why the police reports from contacting neighbours (which I know the police did) and recovered evidence from my home.

So as it stands currently.....

The police CPS have now confirmed

Nothing was found in my home that was described by the FA.
Police interviewed neighbours who saw and heard nothing.
The medical report shows nothing to confirm or deny anything happened.

BUT and this is what is killing me after 3 requests now and dates not hit they still haven't provided the phone evidence (which by the way they confirmed in a letter they have, whether or not it's correct I don't know yet).

So at this rate it'll get pushed to a hearing where by they have to explain why they haven't provided this.

Hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.

Sorry for the long post and apologies if it's a bit scatty, my heads a bit of a wreck right now.

[Bob1234]

Hi al thanks for the support, I'll keep you updated as I go.

Luckily I have a background in IT security so understand the process of obtaining data.

A data dump is when all information from a mobile device is dumped to a file (which is then usually printed off, poor trees right?), this used to be the whole lot but now the CPS/Police deem it to be from the date they assume is the start of any relationship with the FA.

In my case they took my phone and one of the FA's phones (well I presume so as I've only seen info from the one, but we'll get to that in a sec).

So 1st my phone, the OIC contacted me directly asking for more passwords (itunes etc) which I provided, they were still unable to dump data from my phone, despite asking me to even call them to help (my solicitor was surprised to say the least) , now this (at an estimated guess) will be down to the method they are using to dump the phone (software based backup recovery software), this wouldn't have worked for this device as I removed root keys and binded it to my personal devices some time ago, (told ya security background) and the person doing it clearly hadn't been trained or didn't have resources for a hardware data dump. Long story short they took photos instead.

The FA's phone was dumped and pages were produced.

So stage 1 is served with some photos of my phone and some data from hers, my solicitor and I looked over these and found straight away this to be incomplete, so requested everything (even specifying pages they had clearly left out etc, again this is where knowing where to look fits in). These documents favoured only the prosecution.
Questions were also asked to produce other unused evidence and explain why the police reports from contacting neighbours (which I know the police did) and recovered evidence from my home.

So as it stands currently.....

The police CPS have now confirmed

Nothing was found in my home that was described by the FA.
Police interviewed neighbours who saw and heard nothing.
The medical report shows nothing to confirm or deny anything happened.

BUT and this is what is killing me after 3 requests now and dates not hit they still haven't provided the phone evidence (which by the way they confirmed in a letter they have, whether or not it's correct I don't know yet).

So at this rate it'll get pushed to a hearing where by they have to explain why they haven't provided this.

Hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.

Sorry for the long post and apologies if it's a bit scatty, my heads a bit of a wreck right now.

Thanks for the response, very helpful.

Me and the accuser didn't have a relationship, we met that night and she accused me. However the police took my mobile phone. What can they use from the device legally? Anything? The phone was 2 years old but backed up from another phone which i had for two years, so in total probably 4 years worth of data on there. would there be any point of "dumping all this data then"

Thanks
Bob

[sinkingnfast]

Sorry but I'm not sure in your case then, one of the more legally savvy could help here, they can take whatever they want from your phone though as long as they can justify it as far as I'm aware.

Have they not provided anything during Stage 1?

[Pond31]

OK right you brought up some very interetsing points

1) Tthat they asked you for extra passwords itunes etc... hmm I doubt that their warrant allowed for this as I think they cand only ask you too unlock it. I don't believe it is a legal requirement because when I was last arrested they took my phone, computer etc and asked for the passcodes during my interview. I declined to give the code to them as the devices contained evidence that I wanted to use in my defence of my first false accusation. They interviewed then bailed me as before not kept in cells until I gave them the codes.

2) They didn't have the technical knowledge to data dump the phone... hmmm not surprising

3)They took photos of the phone and only gave you copies of images that supported their case.. They were trying to bully you or trick you in to thinking your defence was weak. Lucky for you that you seem to be smart and have a good memory. I suspect they dropped a duce when you asked them for the other photos because it makes it look like they are witholding evidence and attempting to pervert the course of justice. It also could be that there person doing the IT forensic stuff only supplied them with photos they thought would show your guilt.

Their case seems to be 'sinking fast' pun intended. I had over 300 texts on my phone from my FA when they took it from me last time, some of which weakened their case greatly. I offered to send them copies of them that I had backed up, so they didn't have to wait for the IT Forensic report. My offer had two goals 1) to speed up the investigation 2) to show the police that I had copies of all my texts and facebook messages from the FA so there is not point in them trying to edit or hide stuff, like in your case.

I am sure you are frustrated like the rest of us that the police appear to be extremely slow in doing their job and seem only interested in seeking convictions rather than the truth. Keep us up to date with the photos or your phone stuff as i am interested in if they will hand them over.

Funny technical side bar here, I have not yet been able to replace my computer as I bought one very cheap of ebay and the seller fecker did not send it (yet to get refund) so I am using a Atom based Android media box to connect to the internet. So please forgive me for all my spelling mistaakes.

Pond31

[sinkingnfast]

Thanks for the reply and info @Pond31.

I've literally just had an email from my solicitor, they haven't provided the requested information so over the next few days it will be put forward to go to a mention hearing.

I'll update as I know more folks.

I really don't get why not hand it in if they already have it like they say....