Going through hell, advice would be appreciated.

[DamienM]

Hi my name is Damien. I'm a university student from the north of england. On saturday my long term gf broke up with me, so on saturday night i went out with friends to a local pub. I ended up going back with a girl to her friends house (a male) with another friend of hers (also male, who turned out to be her ex).
W ended up having intercourse downstairs on the sofa but she started to make weird comments like "tell me you love me" which freaked me out. i ended up cutting short the sex and leaving. On monday dinnertime i spoke to the girl who had recently broken up with me, and we arranged to talk face to face at the weekend, and things were looking up. monday teatime i received a phone call from the police telling me there had been allegations made against me, altho he couldn't tell me what they were over the phone. I was told to go in in the morning at 9am. I guessed what it was about, and looked up false accusations on the internet. I found a website for FASO and spoke to a woman there who recommended a solicitor for me.
In the morning i went to the police station and was told the charge was rape, and i was arrested. I was booked in and placed in a cell until my solicitor arrived. I then saw my solicitor and went through what had happened.
I then had to be interviewed by the police. In the interview i was totally honest, gave evry bit of detail that was possible. I found out during the interview that the girl alleged that she was spiked and blacked out and then came around to me penetrating her and told me to stop, that i wouldn't, then she blacked out again and when she came around again i'd gone. This is totally untrue as she was the one that instigated sex and was in control the whole way thru. I was bailed by the police until april, and then they took me home where they searched my flat with my consent for any illegal substances. They also kept my phone and the clothes i was wearing on the night for testing (i got those back today).
I'm really struggling to cope with the idea that i'm in this situation, what to tell my exgf on the weekend, just what to do in general? if anyone could give me any advice i'd be extremely grateful.

[Saffron]

Hi Damien

the good news is you have already taken some very useful steps. You have contacted FASO and I assume that the solicitor you are using was recommended by them. I know this is a very frightening thing to happen to you, so it is important you take some steps to protect yourself as far as possible. Under no circumstances should you assume that the truth will prevail.

i would suggest you write down absolutely everything you can remember about the evening: how much and what you had to drink, what you were talking to this girl about before sexual contact happened, how the sex was instigated, whether you wore a condom, etc. If you have any text messages from her, make sure you keep them. It may also be worth giving your solicitor the names and contact details of the other people who were in the house with you. they may be able to shed some light on this girl's character - if she is typically attention-seeking and so on. You say that you guessed you were going to be arrested for rape - did she say anything to you that made you think she might do this? if so, it is vital that you tell your solicitor. Under no circumstances should you contact her, or any of her friends.

I don't want to get your hopes up, but the fact that you have already been given your phone and clothes back sounds positive. my husband was not allowed his clothes back until after his trial. (in fact he didn't want them back, and they were incinerated by the police).

the problem with cases like this is that it is your word against hers, and rape is the only crime that does not require corroboration, or physical evidence. although she is claiming that you drugged her, date rape drugs pass very quickly through the system, so the police would not necessarily be expecting to find any traces of drugs in her system.

It is important that you don't carry this alone. If you have someone you trust, who you can confide in, then tell them and ask for their support.

I'm afraid I can't really help you on what to say to your ex girlfriend. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

best,

Saffron

[DamienM]

Thank you for the speedy reply saffron. Yes the solicitor that i am using is one that was recommended by FASO. I didn't guess from anything that she said specifically, it was the way the police officer asked the questions. In my interview on Tuesday morning i gave the police (and my solicitor who was taking notes) all the details, from how much i'd had to drink, what we were talking bout, what time i went back to the house, what time everyone left us alone, who instigated the sexual intercourse (her) what she said to me and how that made me feel and wanted to leave, what time i left, what time i rang for a taxi, what time the taxi came, the number of the taxi firm, everything. Its all been swirling around in my mind so much for the past few days and nights that its becoming a blur, i can remember everything that happened, just not the order it happened in, and i'm worried that if they interview me again they'll think that i'm lying.
Unfortunately for me, the only people in the house were two of her male friends, one of whom was her ex bf and seemed to still have feelings for her, and the other was an older guy who i think she was physically involved with too. None of my friends were there.
The reason they set bail in April is because they have to send blood and urine samples off for tests and there is a 4 month wait, so i think that is their major line of enquiry. Its really hard not knowing what they're doing, and how the case is going, especially as i'm on my own a lot and my thoughts end up becoming very negative. I'm lucky so far in the fact that the people i've told have all been really supportive, and have been willing to talk to me about things, and no-one has judged me.
As i'm having trouble coping, i wondered if there is anyone that i may be able to talk to, maybe through the police? If anyone knows anything that could help, please let me know.

[Rights Fighter]

Damien I have sent you a private message. I can talk you through what might happen and what to expect.

[Saffron]

Hi Damien

you need to be very careful what you say to the police - i would not recommend asking them for guidance on how to cope. If they can twist things to their advantage they certainly will. if you are having trouble coping, go and see your GP. your doctor will be able to refer you for counselling, or prescribe anti-depressants. FASO will also be able to help you. There may also be a counsellor at your university who can help.

i am guessing that it is her blood and urine that is being sent off for testing. the absence of date rape drugs will not necessarily clear you - as i said before, they pass through the human body very quickly. a lot depends on how quickly she went to the police. if she went immediately, then the absence of drugs may be enough to clear you.

believe me, i do know how dark and frightening this all is. you are lucky that you have supportive friends, and you have done the right thing by telling them what is happening. when you get really down, try taking yourself outside, go for a walk, do some cleaning, any sort of physical activity. this always worked for me. my house was never cleaner than when i was feeling desperately low.

let me know if there is anything i can do to help - and take any advice Rights Fighter offers you with both hands. she knows what she is talking about.

good luck,

Saffron

[Rights Fighter]

Thanks Saffron for those few kind words.

I wondered about the blood and urine tests and got the wrong end of the stick - that's what comes of having wine before settling down to read properly in my case!!!

I've sent Damien details of the solicitor I work for - I don't know whether Southport would be too far away for Chris if a trial does ensue but I know that he will talk to Damien on the phone to offer advise without charge if referred by me.

[DamienM]

Thanks guys, just knowing theres somebody there to answer questions and who understands whats going on has been so helpful, its helped to keep me sane these past few days.
If i decided to change solicitors now to Chris Saltrese, how do i go about that? Obviously I'd have to speak to him first, but what do i do with the solicitor who I'm already using? Would changing my solicitor cast me in a negative light with the police?

[Rights Fighter]

You will need to check with Chris that you are in his jurisdiction as otherwise any visits to you for a conference would cost you as he wouldn't get funding to travel out of the area. Or you could go to see him.

You would need to make sure Chris will take it first and then you have to notify the original sols in writing and then the funding should be transferred to Chris to represent you.

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with Plod whether you change solicitors.

Recently one of my own members (from www.pafaa.org.uk) changed representation at the PCMH (Plea and Case Management Hearing) which is much later on in the process than you are. First the judge refused telling him he would have to represent himself. We went in with our arguments and eventually the representation order (funding) was transferred to an experienced solicitor I know who is near to the member in question). The other "solicitor" (who it turns out is not a solicitor) had done nothing on his case so that trial has now been adjourned until April.

So you can change, but you need to do it fast if that is what you want to do because it is difficult to transfer funding further down the line.

My advice is to ring Chris, explain what the problems are with your current sols and hope that where you live is not out of his jurisdiction. If it is too far away and it is difficult for you to travel to see him, or you can't afford to pay him privately to visit you, then are one or two decent solicitors in Manchester.

For God's sakes don't go near Jordan's in Doncaster. I've got an appeal waiting to be heard after their balls-up of a trial a couple of years back and I have prisoners who complain bitterly about their unsuccessful attempts to appeal as well.

[utterlydestroyed]

Just wanted to echo the messege "DO NOT TRUST" the police in these cases!

It has been a shocking experience for me, my family and friends to learn by bitter experience how dishonest & corrupt the majority of police officers are in these cases. They don't interview defence witnesses, they ignore physical & material evidence to the defence and...now we can add theft (by police) to property siezed but not returned by police.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission is an ineffectual waste of space, who just assist in the covering up of police misconduct & abuses of power!

I'll never trust a police officer again in my life!

[Rights Fighter]

Unfortunately I have to agree with "utterly destroyed". My friend Rob trustingly handed over 53 pieces of evidence to Plod which would prove his daughter was lying. They "lost" it and it resulted him in being wrongly convicted. He came out on appeal the following year and the matter is now with Europe Courts as the Home Office refuse to pay compensation.

I've known police tell a "victim" that the defendant has an alibi for a date she or he has given and hey presto another statement arrives from her/him saying they were confused about the date - even if it's been a birthday or Christmas day. Dates can also change in court on the whim of CPS and the judge will allow it.

Best not to answer questions about dates otherwise the goal posts are widened.

Witnesses who could be used for defence are often snatched by Plod and become witnesses for the Crown only for their evidence to be dropped at trial. I know of a case where the police wrongly transcribed what potential defence witnesses said, turning them into "victims". I went to interview one of those guys who wasn't even aware this had happened as he was told he would not be required by Crown at the last minute. I showed him his witness statement and he couldn't believe the lies that were printed in his name.

You have to be on your guard. And remember that whatever plod tell you - there is no property in a witness. Just because a potential defence witness has become a witness for the Crown, if you know this is a ploy, you can get your solicitor to interview them in any event. They can still be called on your behalf - although it's difficult if part of your bail conditions is that you cannot talk to those people - your solicitor if he's on the ball can write to get his side of things.

[Saffron]

Yep, I'm with Rights Fighter and Utterly Destroyed on this one!
sadly the police are not interested in Justice, merely convictions. In our case, a potentially very useful defence witness was hijacked by the Crown and ended up giving evidence against us!
it makes my blood boil.

[DamienM]

I spoke to the solicitor that Rights Fighter recommended, he was very good, and said theres a reasonable chance that the case won't be persued so thats something to hope for. Just want to say thanks to Saffron and Rights Fighter, you two have really helped me in this, and i want u to know I'm grateful.

[utterlydestroyed]

I have recieved a very nice messege from 'webmoo'.

It would seem police have requested the removal of my threads from this site.

1. BE AWARE POLICE MONITOR these sites.

2. I don't know what else to say other than in my own situation.

a.) Police REFUSED to interview eye witness defence witnesess present at the time.
b.) Police IGNORED (poked at, but ignored) physical evidence. (handed to my brief on my release from interrogation)
c.) Police IGNORED witnesses who had recieved telephone calls from the accuser ADMITTING it was a false allegation.
d.) Police IGNORED recorded text messeges from the accuser ADMITTING it was a false allegation.
e.) Police have NOT returned all the property taken. So I ADD theft by police to the list of abuses and violations by the police.

There is a lot more, a HELL of a lot more abuse, violation, intimidation, lies, purjury committed by varius police officers I have encountered.

To me this is corruption, since the dishonest conduct of the MAJORITY of police officers I have encountered. (Perhaps this is a particular problem with the police force in my area, but I doubt it).

In 2005 the HOME OFFICE released a report which stated that HOMOPHOBIA was ENDEMIC throughout the police...THEY WERE NOT KIDDING!

Personally, I will never trust ANY police officer again, since they seem willing to ALL cover up the coruption, misconduct and even criminal conduct of their colleagues.

I have won an "Independent Police Complaints Commission" enquiry, where the IPCC made Twenty-Two reccommendations of NEEDED improvements in public service by the police force...ALL ignored by police!

Even then only a fraction of our complaints were investigated (I use the term investigated VERY lossely) and any complaint where we had witnesses or evidence was ...IGNORED!

Which is why I KNOW the police force is Corrupt...and the IPCC a complete toothless waste of space and does NOTHING to protect the public from criminal police conduct and/or misconduct abuses by police. The purpose of the IPCC in my experience and opinion is to cover up police abuses...NOT expose them...in my experience!

That is my personal experience of the MAJORITY of police officers I have personally encountered.

Which is why I say to ANYONE falsely accussed OF ANY CRIME, the last person to trust is a "police offier" as I have personally experienced

NO HONESTY
NO INTEGRITY
NO IMPARTIALITY
&
NO TRANSPARENCY OF CONDUCT

from the VAST MAJORITY of police officers I have personally encountered where I live.

It is my belief, based upon my own physical experiences that corruption is COMMON place within the police force...but that might just be my own unfortunate experience.

I hope this makes things clearer.

[DamienM]

I'm sorry that was the case for you, altho i must say that the police were very good when i went in, didn't seem to judge me. I'm praying that they do a good job, and although i am aware of the political pressure on them to get convictions, i just hope this doesn't colour their handling of my case.

[Rights Fighter]

Yes - this is an open forum which means "unregistered" and "guests" can view and post. We've had problems with SS and police joining my own forum although they actually have to join as a member before they can view or post, so they are posing as people who have been falsely accused. In one way that is dishonest but in another there are people who join forums such as this who are guilty and hope to get help and tips on how to "get off". These we don't want or need.

We had one such member who has now left (Thank the Good Lord) - it saved me having to ban him. He outlined genuine evidence the police had found and then complained he didn't know how it could have got where it was found. In this particular case the police cannot possibly have planted the evidence. This caused many members to email me in a flurry as they could see there was something seriously wrong. They stopped answering his posts so in effect he was "frozen out" although not on my instruction. Members could see and feel there was something very wrong.

So I can understand police "monitoring" (for want of a better word) these sites because they may be tracking somebody who is guilty. They also sometimes think that sites such as mine protect the guilty so occasionally happen by to watch the conversations.

Utterlydestroyed has been rather vociferous in his posts about the police and has posted in other threads in a similar manner. I can't really blame him if the experiences he outlined are true - I am sure they are.

However, his experiences with the police do seem to appear rather extreme and that might or might not be down the fact that he is gay and he was unlucky to be investigated by somebody appears to be homophobic.

I think it is more sensible to relate one's own experiences on these boards rather than launch a blanket attack on the police otherwise we'll end up not being listened to and labelled as "ranters".

By the way, we should pause to think about the ex-police officers who are currently residing in HMP's all over the UK, also protesting their innocence of sexual abuse. They are not immune to false allegations either.