Some more questions

[sqounk]

Hi all - got some questions for you if you don't mind answering...

When an NFA or charging decision is reached, how have people experienced hearing about it - I have heard variously through solicitors, letters, when bail was answered - I'd be interested to know what your experience was.

Second question; are all NFA's in sexually related cases referred to the CPS - I have read all investigations were, then I read some are halted when the police know there is not enough evidence to refer. Do the police therefore NFA and not the CPS?

Third question; how intricate would you say Sapphire/ standard police officers knowledge of the legislation is (i.e. knowledge of the 1956 SO act, 2003 act and the children's act) ?

Many thanks all

[Lucky]

When an NFA or charging decision is reached, how have people experienced hearing about it - I have heard variously through solicitors, letters, when bail was answered - I'd be interested to know what your experience was.

Normally Solicitor finds out and lets you know.

Second question; are all NFA's in sexually related cases referred to the CPS - I have read all investigations were, then I read some are halted when the police know there is not enough evidence to refer. Do the police therefore NFA and not the CPS?

I believe most sexual allegations do go via the CPS now, as police don't have the authority to make charging decision now.

Third question; how intricate would you say Sapphire/ standard police officers knowledge of the legislation is (i.e. knowledge of the 1956 SO act, 2003 act and the children's act) ?

They are the experts, so I would assume they know the law inside out...

[Ploppy]

No idea about who gets to decide the NFA, but I was informed when the two detectives who had interviewed me visited my house in person.

Greater Manchester Police - I won't hear a word against them!

[Rights Fighter]

Sometimes a case is NFA'd by what is sometimes known as a "gatekeeper" - usually a retired police officer who will sort the obvious wheat from the chaff.

The vast majority go to the CPS for a decision though. An NFA via the police / gatekeeper doesn't happen at all often.

[sqounk]

Thanks all for replying.

So, the solicitor would normally chase the police to find the outcome, they wouldn't normally contact the solicitor themselves? I suppose in their view they would think 'well, the accused will find out when they return from bail' - is that more or less correct?

Also, if the police don't think an offence has been committed, or it's obvious the case would not stand up in court, would they still refer to the CPS do you think?

Many thanks again

[Franticwithworry]

I can't answer your first question, but as to the second, there are examples in both the English and Scottish courts of cases getting to trial before they are dropped, either because of 'lack of', which in some cases means 'no' evidence, or because it's decided at that late moment that there is no hope of conviction because no crime took place.

The complaint stays on record though, which I believe is completely unjust.

So, no, the Police don't necessarily use common sense when referring cases for a charging decision, and the CPS and Procurator Fiscal's office don't necessarily use common sense when making a charging decision. Some offices have a policy of moving to trial no matter how bizarre/ridiculous/outrageous the complaint if it involves a minor, apparently, I suppose in the hope that the accused will plead guilty to spare the 'victim' and bolster the figures.

It's all to do with figures and nothing to do with justice, so when pleading not guilty when you know you are innocent, it often becomes a test of nerves. The authorities plough on regardless because they are dealing with cases not people, while lives are wrecked in the legal tsunamis they create.

Anything to have us all believing that sexual crime is rife and that they are doing something about it. It's an insult to decent men everywhere.

[sqounk]

I can't answer your first question, but as to the second, there are examples in both the English and Scottish courts of cases getting to trial before they are dropped, either because of 'lack of', which in some cases means 'no' evidence, or because it's decided at that late moment that there is no hope of conviction because no crime took place.

The complaint stays on record though, which I believe is completely unjust.

So, no, the Police don't necessarily use common sense when referring cases for a charging decision, and the CPS and Procurator Fiscal's office don't necessarily use common sense when making a charging decision. Some offices have a policy of moving to trial no matter how bizarre/ridiculous/outrageous the complaint if it involves a minor, apparently, I suppose in the hope that the accused will plead guilty to spare the 'victim' and bolster the figures.

It's all to do with figures and nothing to do with justice, so when pleading not guilty when you know you are innocent, it often becomes a test of nerves. The authorities plough on regardless because they are dealing with cases not people, while lives are wrecked in the legal tsunamis they create.

Anything to have us all believing that sexual crime is rife and that they are doing something about it. It's an insult to decent men everywhere.

That sounds absolutely grim, Frantic. That's the first time I've heard the term 'Procurator Fiscal' - what's that? With so much now in the media about the injustice of FA in the light of Cliff etc., do you think the tide is beginning to turn re the public's perception?

[Franticwithworry]

That sounds absolutely grim, Frantic. That's the first time I've heard the term 'Procurator Fiscal' - what's that? With so much now in the media about the injustice of FA in the light of Cliff etc., do you think the tide is beginning to turn re the public's perception?

The Procurator Fiscal is part of the Scottish system of law which is quite different from England. The lawyers in the Procurator Fiscal's office make charging decisions in the same way as the CPS do in England though. They are the Scottish prosecution lawyers.

As for the tide turning, I don't really know. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome before any real change can happen, but I think people are becoming more aware that there are issues that need to be looked at. I don't think that, necessarily, people are yet prepared to take off their blinkers and see the situation for what it is in any meaningful way. Too many think that there is no smoke without fire and all that nonsense, but you never know, I could be wrong.

I'll admit to being quite pessimistic at the moment in view of our own recent experiences - but tomorrow is another day.

[sqounk]

The Procurator Fiscal is part of the Scottish system of law which is quite different from England. The lawyers in the Procurator Fiscal's office make charging decisions in the same way as the CPS do in England though. They are the Scottish prosecution lawyers.

As for the tide turning, I don't really know. There are a lot of hurdles to overcome before any real change can happen, but I think people are becoming more aware that there are issues that need to be looked at. I don't think that, necessarily, people are yet prepared to take off their blinkers and see the situation for what it is in any meaningful way. Too many think that there is no smoke without fire and all that nonsense, but you never know, I could be wrong.

I'll admit to being quite pessimistic at the moment in view of our own recent experiences - but tomorrow is another day.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...d-live-updates

Just a few moments ago. Hopefully, this will help.

[Franticwithworry]

This is good to see, but I don't think that the authorities have even begun to understand the issues that face men who are dealing with false and accusations by those close to them, like daughters or wives.

Not naming before arrest isn't good enough either. Plenty of people are arrested solely on the word of a false accuser and plenty of people think that being arrested means a crime has definitely been committed, which innocent people know to their cost, isn't the case at all.

[Shocked777]

1. I was phoned by the OIC.

2. In my case it was NFA before even going to the CPS though I wasn't arrested or charged.

3. No idea sorry.