So angry and hurt

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

He has been charged and the prelim is in August , just another question lots of people seem to say that the actual conviction rate on rape cases is very low ; anybody know the figures and the reasons for this ? And might sound like a silly question but do the courts ever use lie detectors for cases like these? Oh and do the accusers go th the preliminary hearing. Thank you in advance you are keeping me sane with
Honest answers, I find lots of people who will just say " don't worry he'll be fine " and" he'll never get done for this cos he didn't do anything " - I wish I had the same trust in the justice system.

[Faith]

The accuser would not attend the preliminary hearing as this is not the time to give evidence. Lie detectors are not admissable in UK cases (although some police forces are due to roll out trials in the future) the problem with lie detectors is that there are people who can beat machines...there have been people who have tried to beat a lie detector and succeeded...

As for your question on conviction rates, I am not altogether sure what the current statistics are (they appear to change all the time) I wouldn't worry about it too much...every case is different and knowing the statistic won't help your case in any way

Look after yourself. Keep coming back if you need further advice. Did you find a solicitor who specialises in contested cases of sexual allegations? I would strongly reccommend taking Rights Fighter's advice regarding getting your solicitor to instruct an expert who can look into exactly what the accuser's drunken state might imply...as she said...it would be quite clear if she had been drugged as opposed to being drunk.

[Boys don't cry]

So angry and hurt

Do not worry about statistics,lie detectors,...
I did search for them as well on internet to reassure myself.

Just tell your son to build is defence.
I know how you feel as my mother helped me so much and I felt sorry for her.

Details,documents,facts,witnesses,character references will help both of you.
Take care.

[lawlessone2009]

As is mentioned, witnesses can give circumstantial evidence. Enough circumstantial evidence can be pulled together to detail a true version of events. What is alleged to have happened in the room can then be left for the jury to decide. The witnesses down the stairs at the party could be a decider of whether there is guilt or not even though the only witnesses to whatever happened in the room is your son and the accuser.

There are major problems with the witnesses downstairs. They may have loyalties to either party or opinions on what they 'should' say. The Police can also be biased in their questioning of them. It is probably the fact that there are witnesses, although indirectly, that is pushing things on to trial. The prosecution clearly believe that there is a chance of conviction. I cannot stress enough that you need to ensure that your legal team IS experienced in this minefield of a game of words and insinuated actions as they really are going to be the pivotal point between a guilty verdict and a not guilty verdict.

Your son being involved in 'fights' is in a completely different park to your son being tried for rape. In the circumstances you describe violence doesn't appear to be mentioned at all. You refer to it as an accusation of 'non-consensual rape' rather than 'violent forced rape' if you get where I am coming from...

I would recommend that you do not have any further contact with the Police. It seems from some of your postings that you have communicated with one of the officers in a friendly(ish) manner and he has also shared some of his personal information with you (regarding his sons). It may seem like an okay thing to do but please remember that the Police gather information constantly, nothing is ever 'off the record'. You could be lulled into a nice friendly chat and then find yourself mentioned in one of the Police statements AGAINST your son. They are not your friend, they're state employed robots with single track minds, prosecute prosecute prosecute.

From your postings so far I feel as if the case could go anywhere. It's not open and shut. Avoid being scared by Google searches or the likes and don't fall into that horrible trap of 'statistics'. I did that! They are merely numbers and nonsense numbers at that, unless you follow the number from the start then the 6% of this that has increased by 120% of that leaves you feeling as if 123% of those accused are found guilty (notice I made it more than 100%...... ). We all know that you're dazed and confused, most of us are in the same boat or have been in it.

If things are treading water at the moment then sit back and relax. I know that there is a terrible drive to make yourself feel as if you are doing something but if the information/evidence/statements/whatever else are slow in coming through then there is little to act on. You can prepare a defence if you wish but what are you defending against? You're here on the forum and can no doubt read others posts which is something I highly recommend. You also ask questions, highly recommended. You'll need to thoroughly understand the processes involved so that you are able to keep tabs on the legal team, check information as it comes in, question any decisions that are made, compile a defence on the correct track and also hold everything together mentally and emotionally. It's a bloody hard one to face but at least you and your boy don't appear to have made any obvious mistakes so far (like admitting things to the Police) and have ever chance of a successful defence 'if' it is needed.

[ridethespiral]

Thankyou so much I nearly cried when I saw a reply so soon. My son is 19 yrs old, has been accused of non consensual sex with somebody he worked with for four years . ( she is a married woman and has only been married under a year) she has already had an affair ( well one-night-stand) ( With some random man )
We have to go to crown court for prelimanary hearing. She has tried to say that she was unable to consent due to the fact that she thinks she was date raped by my son. As far as we can see from the little evidence we have seen there were no drugs in her system but the forensic says that the blood test was too late to tell She says she can only remember flash backs from that evening , I suppose that will excuse the fact that she was dirty dancing with half the men in the party with only her knickers on.

My son who is adorable ! Made a statement to the police when they arrested him it was frank and honest he told them exactly what happened and his solicitor told him he had done well to give an accurate account. As far as I can see there is only one question to answer did she consent or not , I know who I believe but how do we prove it when there were only two people in the room? We know that the reason she has scremed rape is because she knows that my son will have told people where they both work and there would have been a good chance her friends, family and husband will have found out,. Sorry I am ranting !!!

Hi Missus,
You see why the conviction rate it so low is because most of the time it ends up being his word against her's .The police have to prove that your son is a rapist and from what you have told me it sounds like if your case goes to trial your son will probably be found not guilty unless there is clear proof that he raped her (she sounds like a seedy woman if she was dancing in nothing but her underpants) I would not worry to much there are a few hundred of these types of cases that go to court at one time and when it comes down to her word against his and he has no criminal record (innocent until proven guilty is the law) the judges are very scared of making mistakes and can get in trouble if they convict a man who could have been innocent) guilty is when some guy pins the girl down her head gets smashed there is blood and scratches and bruises and date rape drugs found then it looks like the guy is a rapist if he is a good boy he should be fine sounds like wifey didn't show up home so she cried rape make sure he does not turn to drinking and smoking or other bad habbits to numb himself if there is big depression you or him are suffering consider getting medical help.This will be a bitter time in your lives but you should not let it destroy your family or your son .Try take the good from the bad .good luck and god bless you

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

Oooooo thanku all so much for all your sound advice ! I should know that already about talking to the police thanks for the reminder,

I said before the forensics came back and said that there weren't traces of drugs or alcohol but that the time lapse could be the reason Surely if she was as drunk as she was making out and/ or date raped then something would have shown up? As far as I can work out she went to a rape centre in the afternoon the next day 18hrs after the party, I thought these tests were ultra sensitive? It's like we can't win if there were drugs/drink they would have put it on him now it looks like there aren't they say it's too late too say, why didn't they take blood samples sooner ? Maybe she didn't get there early enough because she knew full well that drugs would not be found and then her so called rape wouldn't sound so believeable ,

I don't know how good the solicitor is , how would you know? And what happens if you get half way and then realise that there not the best? Oops

[Boys don't cry]

Your son will probably be found not guilty unless there is clear proof that he raped her (she sounds like a seedy woman if she was dancing in nothing but her underpants)

Guilty is when some guy pins the girl down her head gets smashed there is blood and scratches and bruises and date rape drugs found then it looks like the guy is a rapist if he is a good boy he should be fine.

Good luck and god bless you

Just some information ridethespiral:

Her son will probably be found not guilty only if the jury will believe her son more than this woman.
Unless there is clear proof that he raped her:Only if he did penetrate her could be enough and he obviously did.

If she was seedy dancing with her underpants,I've seen drunk girls in London flashing their...Drunk girls kissing me,drunk girls dancing like...
Oh girls ,just want to have fun!


Guilty is when some guy pins the girl down her head gets smashed there is blood and scratches and bruises and date rape drugs found then it looks like the guy is a rapist

Is it really?

Under section 1(1) SOA 2003 a defendant, A, is guilty of rape if:

_ A intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of B (the complainant) with his penis;

_ B does not consent to the penetration; and,

_ A does not reasonably believe that B consents.


I do not want to upset you So angry and hurt and I really hope the best for your son but his defence is what will save him.
He must prove the jury that she is the one who wanted him in bed even if there is no evidence.
It is his words against hers.
Bless you both.

[lawlessone2009]

Oooooo thanku all so much for all your sound advice ! I should know that already about talking to the police thanks for the reminder,

I said before the forensics came back and said that there weren't traces of drugs or alcohol but that the time lapse could be the reason Surely if she was as drunk as she was making out and/ or date raped then something would have shown up? As far as I can work out she went to a rape centre in the afternoon the next day 18hrs after the party, I thought these tests were ultra sensitive? It's like we can't win if there were drugs/drink they would have put it on him now it looks like there aren't they say it's too late too say, why didn't they take blood samples sooner ? Maybe she didn't get there early enough because she knew full well that drugs would not be found and then her so called rape wouldn't sound so believeable ,

I don't know how good the solicitor is , how would you know? And what happens if you get half way and then realise that there not the best? Oops

ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING AT ALL that undermines the prosecutions case will be brushed to the side and explained off as if it is unimportant. 18 hours later and virtually everything will show in the blood stream. The tests are VERY thorough as well so the fact they are clear puts a big dent in the prosecutions case and will definitely be causing them a headache if her statement is along the lines of 'lack of consent due to x,y,x' rather than 'I did not consent at all'.

If you have a strong solicitor and barrister with experience then they will begin to highlight these glaring issues and discuss what the route forward is. We're all here to help you along the path.

[Faith]

.The police have to prove that your son is a rapist and from what you have told me it sounds like if your case goes to trial your son will probably be found not guilty unless there is clear proof that he raped her (she sounds like a seedy woman if she was dancing in nothing but her underpants) I would not worry to much there are a few hundred of these types of cases that go to court at one time and when it comes down to her word against his and he has no criminal record (innocent until proven guilty is the law) the judges are very scared of making mistakes and can get in trouble if they convict a man who could have been innocent) guilty is when some guy pins the girl down her head gets smashed there is blood and scratches and bruises and date rape drugs found then it looks like the guy is a rapist if he is a good boy he should be fine sounds like wifey didn't show up home so she cried rape make sure he does not turn to drinking and smoking or other bad habbits to numb himself if there is big depression you or him are suffering consider getting medical help.This will be a bitter time in your lives but you should not let it destroy your family or your son .Try take the good from the bad .good luck and god bless you

Sorry but this post is dangerously incorrect.

A man can and very often has been found guilty on zero evidence save for an allegation. Rape is not always as you paint it...nor is the courtroom.

Im not trying to dampen the mood of the thread but advice telling people they will definitely be fine gets noone anywhere. We simply cannot make those kinds of assurances I'm afraid.

[ridethespiral]

see it is all a matter of consent and only consent .....................................now no drugs or anything found in her- hopefully no scaring on her vagina and then he is a good boy you say mother it comes down to consent now it becomes his word against her word the law is innocent until proven guilty .Now that means they have to prove he is guilty .So missus don't get to scared it's best to find a lawyer that does sexual matters as a specialist.Who knows they might even throw your case out all the best to you. secretly most Judges don't give a stuff about your son or the girl who cries rape they are so busy covering their behinds in case they mess something up and it goes to an appeal.

[Boys don't cry]

Ridethespiral.

The prosecution doesn't need a bruise,a single hair pulled out,a scratch,...nothing...just to believe that the woman was not consenting.
And that her son didn't reasonably believe that she was.

Only if she said "Oh I don't know...I like you but..."or if she was too drunk could make a difference.
I won't go any further.
He must be SURE that she was.

Take care So angry and hurt.
Get the balance right.

[Saffron]

Ridethespiral: Sorry, but what you have said about the burden of proof is nonsense.
Many many men have been found guilty on the word of one person - the complainant.
The jury are simply asked to decide who they believe. That is it in a nutshell.
Please don't give false hope to members, especially as we cannot possibly know everything about their cases.

[RFLH]

goodness me - we seem to have another poster we need to keep an eye on. Posting advice is one thing but posting tripe is another.

[So angry and hurt]

So angry and hurt

Just thinking, how can I ask this solicitor how good he is without offending, and is it about how good the barrister is or how good the solicitor is. Also does it mean that because we are going to a preliminary that it is certain to go to trial or do they ever throw it out at this stage ? Sorry questions questions !

[Faith]

Well, no solicitor is going to reply: 'Actually mate, I'm pretty sh!t'

You need to do your research...find their previous cases, check up on what KINDS of cases they are (a sol who fights parking tickets might not be what you want for example) but most of all, judge how he makes you feel. If they instil confidence in you then that's a big thing.

You need a good legal TEAM...if your sol OR your barrister is naff, then you're straight away on the backfoot....