Please help !!! Fiancee falsely accused of historic rape

[Rights Fighter]

The DHSS evidence could well be relevant to the case as it could potentially show the witness as being a known liar and therefore cast doubt on her reliability.

This could not be used unless she had been reported first. This of course can be done anonymously.

Lawlessone said: I wouldn't imagine that a jury would be easily led, they normally see through lies quite easily. All that your defence needs to achieve is 'reasonable doubt' which should be reasonably easy with a historical case if you can find and present the relevant evidence.

Where has this come from? You can't claim that juries 'normally see through lies quite easily' It's a different twelve people on a jury every single time...no one can possibly predict how easily they can be led. In these cases, it's the sad truth that juries CAN easily be led due to the sensitive and controversial subject matter. It is never going to be reasonably easy to win a case like this...no one facing this can afford to be complacent. That lesson is much too late to learn after a verdict has been delivered.

'Reasonable doubt' in law has now been changed to 'so you can be sure'. Many juries especially when led by a bigot will assume the case has been investigated thoroughly by the police and then by the CPS.

Juries do not embark on these cases with an open mind. They assume guilt and have to be persuaded otherwise. I've sat through enough trials to have noticed how juries look and behave once the charges have been read out.

I've sat through trials were HUGE MASSIVE DISCREPANCIES AND PROVABLE LIES have been put to the jury with forceful clarity and then emphasised in Defence closing speeches, and in some case, by the judge in summing up the evidence. The jury has still come to the guilty verdict regardless. It's as though they have been out of the courtroom and doing other things - as clearly they were not listening.

[lawlessone2009]

Faith:

It IS easy to prove but as RF points out it's whether the jury believe it/listen.

One word against the other means that credible evidence is required. Medical records go some way towards providing this. Obviously the evidence would be to disprove as for some reason the burden of proof gets muddled up all to often............................................. .................................................. ................................................

RF:

I don't doubt that discrediting the accuser is a good route to take BUT I would not count on the DSS or DHSS or whomever to be the avenue that will do this. Report her immediately and see what happens just don't build an imaginary defence based on a favourable outcome. Knowing the government, any investigation will probably cost £1.2 million and take approx 3 years and countless 'meetings' to solve...

As for 'beyond reasonable doubt' being changed, of course it has. Sorry for implying that common sense and fairness still existed in any form within the justice system. A team of government enforcers are not likely to have their paymasters make things more difficult for them now are they?

I do take on board about the juries and their ignorance. I was being shortsighted in my views. Sorry. Merely attempting to keep things border-line positive.

[Rights Fighter]

Faith:

It IS easy to prove but as RF points out it's whether the jury believe it/listen.

One word against the other means that credible evidence is required. Medical records go some way towards providing this. Obviously the evidence would be to disprove as for some reason the burden of proof gets muddled up all to often............................................. .................................................. ................................................


RF:
I don't doubt that discrediting the accuser is a good route to take BUT I would not count on the DSS or DHSS or whomever to be the avenue that will do this. Report her immediately and see what happens just don't build an imaginary defence based on a favourable outcome. Knowing the government, any investigation will probably cost £1.2 million and take approx 3 years and countless 'meetings' to solve...



As for 'beyond reasonable doubt' being changed, of course it has. Sorry for implying that common sense and fairness still existed in any form within the justice system. A team of government enforcers are not likely to have their paymasters make things more difficult for them now are they?

I do take on board about the juries and their ignorance. I was being shortsighted in my views. Sorry. Merely attempting to keep things border-line positive.

You are wrong about medical evidence. I am trying to help several guys where the medical evidence proved she was a virgin at examination and that there were no anal injuries yet the accusers claimed years of vaginal and anal rape from the age of 4+ years up until around 16 years. Juries often ignore this because the back covering comment at the end of these expert reports says: 'Of course this neither confirms nor denies abuse.....'


Who said they were building an imaginary defence case around fraudulent claims from the DSS? If it is known that she is defrauding the tax payer then they should report this and hopefully get it proved to assist with their own defence case.

[lawlessone2009]

I'm not getting into an online battle. Every case is different as you well know, picking out purely a medical case where things 'went wrong' doesn't mean that focus should no longer turn towards medical notes as a train of thought.

There is a difference between a doctor treating a patient (the accuser) after being 'drugged' and 'raped', as quoted by the OP, and someone who has systematically been abused for years yet appears a virgin. There could also be signs of repeated referrals to psychiatric/counsellor types since 15 years ago. If there's no sign of this then it should provide room for questioning at trial. This is good solid and easily obtainable proof. There could of course be reasons for no medical notes and these could be quite believable. A request is not worth passing up on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the financial side of things either but just don't count on her getting caught! I highlighted this. PROVING she has been defrauding them will be a case on its own and could mean expending energy which in the long term may be wasted. It could also, possibly, show bad character of the accused if he somehow finds himself embroiled in it all or even implicated in some way from all those years ago.

And I believe that this little quote from wiki could be of assistance to the OP so that they don't believe that the rules have changed that drastically:

England

The use of "reasonable doubt" as a standard requirement in the Western justice system originated in medieval England. In English common law prior to the "reasonable doubt" standard, passing judgment in criminal trials had severe religious repercussions for jurors. According to Christian law prior to the 1780s: "the Juryman who finds any other person guilty, is liable to the Vengeance of God upon his Family and Trade, Body and Soul, in this world and that to come."[1] It was also believed "In every case of doubt, where one’s salvation is in peril, one must always take the safer way.... A judge who is in doubt must refuse to judge."[1] It was in reaction to these "religious fears"[1] that "reasonable doubt" was introduced in the late 17th century to English common law, thereby allowing jurors to more easily convict. Therefore the original use of the "reasonable doubt" standard was opposite to its modern use of limiting a juror's ability to convict.

However, juries in criminal courts in England are no longer customarily directed to consider whether there is "reasonable doubt" about a defendant's guilt. Indeed, a recent conviction was appealed after the judge had said to the jury "You must be satisfied of guilt beyond all reasonable doubt." The conviction was upheld but the Appeal Court made clear their unhappiness with the judge's remark, indicating that the judge should instead have said to the jury simply that before they can return a verdict of guilty, they "must be sure that the defendant is guilty".[2]

[Rights Fighter]

I am currently looking at a one-night-stand case where there is no medical evidence whatsoever.

He's in prison and has been since 2010.

I can only go by the experience I have had helping to defend these cases at trial and to assist with appealing convictions - I have been doing this since 2000 when a friend of mine was convicted and released on appeal in 2001. From 2002 onwards it is the only work I have concentrated on.

What experience are you going from, Lawlessone? Maybe you have similar to me- I really don't know.

[Faith]

Lawlessone, I refuse to get into an argument over this as I do not want this person's thread de-railed. However, you seem to misunderstand what the word proof means.
In most situations where it is one word against the other, there is no proof.


How can you prove that something didn't happen?

[lawlessone2009]

My idea of 'proof' is looking for tangible objects such as medical reports, background reports, diaries, witness statements and so forth and presenting them as proof that something did or did not happen.

Proof may be lacking in 'words' but a picture can be painted by many different types of paint. Giving strength to your words is what I believe the journey through the evidence collection is all about.

RF - I'm not even going to attempt to challenge your wisdom and experience. All I was implying was that EVERY avenue should be explored and that anything that may substantiate someones version of events should be examined and presented. I understand historical cases generally lack medical evidence which can be as much of a burden for the prosecution as it is for the defence. Both parties work their way around it. The OP needs guidance to ensure that they work their way around it 'better'. They also need a good solicitor and so far nobody has recommended one as I seem to have derailed a perfectly good and justified posting.

I will keep my nose out of further bad advice giving and hopefully someone somewhere on here can recommend a solicitor?

[Casehardened]

In post #3 Mia said she and her fiancee were going to speak to a specialist solicitor today: hopefully she will be able to update us on how this meeting went.

[lawlessone2009]

But is the 'specialist' solicitor a SPECIALIST solicitor?

Maybe if I have not entirely put her of she may be willing to post the name of the solicitors practice so that others can validate IF they really are specialists?

[mia]

But is the 'specialist' solicitor a SPECIALIST solicitor?

Maybe if I have not entirely put her of she may be willing to post the name of the solicitors practice so that others can validate IF they really are specialists?

Hi,
My fiancee and i, went to see the Solicitor today, and i was relieved that he has represented men that have been falsely accused of rape, and other sexual offences before and is so presently.

I am sorry if i have mis-led anyone by saying he was a specialist solicitor... That was my way of saying that he had defended such cases...and has a good reputation..

We were there for an hour and a half, and after discussing all the charges etc,and the filling in of forms he was honest with us. He said that it is the prosecutions case to prove that my fiancee is guilty... and if he was found guilty after pleading not guilty he could face up to 10 yrs in prison...( at this point i sat in disbelief) If he pleaded guilty, and was convicted he could face 4 to 6 yrs....

We discussed the fact that there is no evidence, DNA etc as the accusations are from 14 years ago....her motives and the 2 step daughters motives etc; although we both became very upset at times, due to the fact that suddenly sitting hearing about possible sentences made this whole sick mess realistic....

Its hard, as a woman to understand why another woman would, could and has falsely accused her ex husband and the father of one of her children? its already having a ripple effect, my children although grown are devastated but determined to stand by him, and attend court etc.

Me, i feel numb, anger and disgust at the lies that have come from not only her, but the 2 daughters....I'm worried sick that press will find out and print a story etc; which will then open us up as a family to ridicule etc; and i feel guilty for feeling like that, as i know and see that utter hell my fiancee is feeling and going through...

I feel that i will be seeking some kind of solace and support as time goes on...

[mia]

Hi,
My fiancee and i, went to see the Solicitor today, and i was relieved that he has represented men that have been falsely accused of rape, and other sexual offences before and is so presently.

I am sorry if i have mis-led anyone by saying he was a specialist solicitor... That was my way of saying that he had defended such cases...and has a good reputation..

We were there for an hour and a half, and after discussing all the charges etc,and the filling in of forms he was honest with us. He said that it is the prosecutions case to prove that my fiancee is guilty... and if he was found guilty after pleading not guilty he could face up to 10 yrs in prison...( at this point i sat in disbelief) If he pleaded guilty, and was convicted he could face 4 to 6 yrs....

We discussed the fact that there is no evidence, DNA etc as the accusations are from 14 years ago....her motives and the 2 step daughters motives etc; although we both became very upset at times, due to the fact that suddenly sitting hearing about possible sentences made this whole sick mess realistic....

Its hard, as a woman to understand why another woman would, could and has falsely accused her ex husband and the father of one of her children? its already having a ripple effect, my children although grown are devastated but determined to stand by him, and attend court etc.

Me, i feel numb, anger and disgust at the lies that have come from not only her, but the 2 daughters....I'm worried sick that press will find out and print a story etc; which will then open us up as a family to ridicule etc; and i feel guilty for feeling like that, as i know and see that utter hell my fiancee is feeling and going through...

I feel that i will be seeking some kind of solace and support as time goes on...

The solicitors name is Max Anwar and he is based in Stratford.

[RFLH]

solace and support given by the bucket-load here.

[Faith]

Mia, you have not mis-led anyone by saying he is a specialist. That is what we mean when we say is he a specialist...we mean does he have decent experience in these kinds of cases

Also bear in mind, that a solicitor HAS to warn you of potential sentences and also has to discuss the lowering of a sentence if he was to plead guilty. This does not mean he thinks you have a bad case...these are procedures they have to follow.

[lawlessone2009]

As Faith says, specialist means 'experienced' in the area of rape.

All to often a solicitor will claim to be specialised in whatever the case put before them is but when it comes down to the line they're really only experienced in selling houses or divorces.

Someone who has dealt with sexual allegations will know the procedures involved etc.

On here you will no doubt get loads of help be it understanding and guidance or a few eyes to shout at (listening ears).

Sorry if I've been overpowering throughout your posting. I'll die down a little.

Hope you guys are starting to recover a little. Whenever I see my legal representatives I always sink to the lowest of the low with emotions and feelings. I recover over time and much easier with the support of all those on here. Each time I meet with the legal team I seem to get into a deeper and darker hole as more details emerge yet at the same time the experienced and support of others on here drags me out each time.

This place is invaluable.

I would actively encourage you to read as much info on here, and elsewhere, as possible and to ask questions. I don't think there is a single issue in life that someone on here cannot provide the answers too.

Having confidence in your legal representation is paramount. What may seem a daunting task at present will get easier with time. The questions and answers will smooth out and you will begin to piece together a defence with reason and logic. Obviously what a jury make of it is up for debate but I like to think that everyone is impartial and keep getting shot down for it...

[mia]

As Faith says, specialist means 'experienced' in the area of rape.

All to often a solicitor will claim to be specialised in whatever the case put before them is but when it comes down to the line they're really only experienced in selling houses or divorces.

Someone who has dealt with sexual allegations will know the procedures involved etc.

On here you will no doubt get loads of help be it understanding and guidance or a few eyes to shout at (listening ears).

Sorry if I've been overpowering throughout your posting. I'll die down a little.

Hope you guys are starting to recover a little. Whenever I see my legal representatives I always sink to the lowest of the low with emotions and feelings. I recover over time and much easier with the support of all those on here. Each time I meet with the legal team I seem to get into a deeper and darker hole as more details emerge yet at the same time the experienced and support of others on here drags me out each time.

This place is invaluable.

I would actively encourage you to read as much info on here, and elsewhere, as possible and to ask questions. I don't think there is a single issue in life that someone on here cannot provide the answers too.

Having confidence in your legal representation is paramount. What may seem a daunting task at present will get easier with time. The questions and answers will smooth out and you will begin to piece together a defence with reason and logic. Obviously what a jury make of it is up for debate but I like to think that everyone is impartial and keep getting shot down for it...

Thank you all for your kind words and support x

The solicitor asked my to give him screen shot pictures of the face book conversation between my daughter and her son (my step son) which i have ready. The feel of dread is hard,and trying to act as normal, if thats the correct phase, is hard too.... All my 3 children have insisted on giving a statement to help , and we are hopeful that his step daughter and 2nd ex wife will also assist in his defence....My fiancee pleads not quilty on Mon 1st May, and will then be given a date for trail.......just typing is making me feel sick I have reported her to the dhss without giving any of my details, so will wait to see what, if anything happends......also just found out that the ex wife(accusser) had intercourse and feel pregnant with a 16 year old boy, she had the baby and married him when he was 18yrs old, she was 34 at the time....we have proof of this.....marraige ended in divorce.... 8 children by 7 different dads, none execpt my fiancee have contact or see them...