Other Half struggling and overwhelmed

[Batmother]

Hello Folks not really sure where to start or why I am posting this. Other half was arrested a few months ago, then released without being charged. Fastforward to Nov other half re arrested, told ‘new evidence has come to light’, cops don’t say what that new ‘evidence’ is, they don’t re interview him, then he’s charged. Historic sexual abuse alleged he has no idea who the 2 are but he would have come across them in his job, they know each other (siblings). Husband has been in a state of shock but is doing better now but still falling apart and did speak of suicide as he feels his reputation is in the bin and now looks back and hates the job I know he loved. We feel like it’s worse than a bereavement if that makes sense. Very few people in the family know about it but anyone who does know are right behind him and giving him great support but it still feels like we are weighed down and drowning at times. The initial shock is abating and now anger is setting in but truth be told we are utterly terrified.

[Peter1975]

Hello and a sad welcome to the forum Batmother. I'm sorry you find yourself here but hope we may be able to help in some small way.

Your emotions are understandable and a completely natural reaction to the hellish nightmare of being falsely accused. The length of time these things drag on can be like torture but on the plus side, you also get plenty of space to get your mind around the situation and prepare for each stage as best as you can. My advice would also be to take some time to go out and enjoy yourself to keep grounded in normality and have something to look forward to. I managed to forget my troubles for a couple of hours at a comedy club which lifted some of the weight off.

The 'new evidence' could be anything but its possible it could be a diary or a witness that says the complainant told them something at the time. Contemporaneous evidence can have quite a lot of bearing on a charging decision but it's important to note that the two instances I just outlined would not be corroborative because they are not independent from the complainants, who as siblings are clearly not independent from one another either.

You should be given a copy of the CPS 'bundle' either shortly before or shortly after your OH's first appearance at the magistrates and this will contain the evidence the Crown intend to rely on at trial, mostly transcripts of police interviews. You should also at some point be given an opportunity to view the videoed recordings of the complainant's police ABE interviews which will be played to the jury as their evidence in chief. You may feel you and your legal team don't have much to work with right now but there will be. Take plenty of notes. Write everything down. Take a list of questions to ask your solicitor or barrister so that you don't come away kicking yourself.

Sadly, very few people use this forum anymore but there is still plenty of useful stuff here and CH and I will be happy to answer any questions or try to point you in the right direction if we can. Please check out the useful information section but perhaps the most useful information is that everyone gets through it.

I'm glad that your OH has support. This is the most valuable thing he can get but it can be difficult for the partners of the accused who may need support themselves. Many find comfort and some have made lifelong friendships in the more popular facebook groups, some of which have thousands of members. There is a list in the useful info section. However I should warn you that as comforting as it can be knowing others are going though the same things as you, they can also be depressing and difficult places to be with an unfortunate amount of misinformation, and for this reason I will only personally recommend PAFAA, run by the knowledgeable and experienced Helga Speck.

[Batmother]

Thank you so very much Peter1975 for your reply. Your explanation of the ‘new evidence’ is very helpful. We are just stunned and now thrust into a world that is totally alien and unknown to us, so to know that websites/forums such as this exist to support people is of some comfort and has opened our eyes to just how many people have and are affected by this nightmare scenario(s). I have ‘poured’ over numerous sites and pages for months reading sometimes with hope then despair then hopeful again, talk about a ‘rollercoaster’ plus the fact that we are in Scotland and know that the laws and procedures can vary greatly with some bits but very similar to England and Wales in others.. I have taken note of the other sites you mentioned, thank you for them. There is already doubt on their accusations due to the date that it was supposed to have started and we hope when we see their statements and anything else that we will find yet more holes/doubt on their ‘story’. Thanks again Peter1975.

[Peter1975]

You're welcome, although I should know better than to assume every case is in England or Wales

I'm afraid my knowledge of Scottish law and it's arcane procedures can be written on a postage stamp but hopefully you will have a good advocate that will explain it all.

You are right that while there are many differences north of the border, the essence does seem to be the same in many respects and the rollercoaster of emotions and inescapable feeling that you have been transported to a horrible alternative reality are identical, but so too are the endless reserves of strength and resilience you will find to power you through it.. Another definite similarity is that liars don't tend to make very good witnesses and often fall apart in the witness box whether it's an English barrister or a Scottish advocate cross examining them.

One key difference and unique to Scotland as far as I know is that no prosecution can take place unless there are two separate pieces of corroborating evidence. There are almost constant calls to abolish this requirement because of the difficulty it presents in sexual offences where eyewitnesses are unlikely and DNA evidence says nothing about consent. One way around this is the Moorov doctrine which, on my limited understanding says that where there are two separate allegations that are similar in fact with only one witness (ie, the complainer) they can be grouped together so that essentially, one allegation acts as the corroboration for the other by showing propensity.

I believe that the definition of similar fact evidence has been stretched over the years so that almost any sexual allegation, no matter how trivial can be used as showing propensity for another completely different and much more serious one. So in the case of two siblings, one only has to say their bum was touched and that would be enough to get over the corroboration hurdle. I seem to remember more than one Scottish case that appeared to be going nowhere when hey presto, it turns out the complainer's friend makes an allegation and it goes to court.

Another way that isn't really a separate piece of corroborating evidence to my mind is the presence of someone the complainer has spoken to soon after the alleged event, known as a first complaint witness but it could also just be a witness that recalls seeing the complainant upset. A contemporaneous record such as a diary or doctors visit would also work.

Keep working through the evidence and picking holes but remember to give yourselves a break and come back to it fresh. Some people advise keeping a notepad and pen handy for when random thoughts hit you. Another thing I like to tell people is to make sure you eat well and exercise. Being physically strong will help with the mental drain.

Remember there are a lot of cases that get thrown out before trial, some are thrown out mid trial and there are many acquittals. You might feel you are on a hellish rollercoaster but there is plenty of hope to hang on to.

[Casehardened]

Peter is, as usual, being modest but his knowledge of law and court procedure is unparalleled on the forum however I did want to welcome you to the forum, but with the usual rider of it being unfortunate that you have needed to!

I recollect that we have had several members posting from north of the borders in the past when the forum was more active and their case histories might be found via search terms such as 'Scotland' and 'Scottish Law' (search box is at top right of the page) As these cases are mostly several years old it may be that the law and procedures have changed but, as Peter remarked, it will give you optimism that most outcomes are positive for those who are accused.

Your OH is so fortunate to have yourself and the family supporting him; he probably won't be thinking along these lines at the moment as the immediate future is all-encompassing, but you will be an even stronger unit when this is all over.

[Batmother]

Thank you Casehardened for replying to my earlier ‘ramble’. I was incredibly nervous even posting anything but needed to ‘let out a scream/let off steam by running this by good folks like yourself as I felt so alone even though one of my Brothers and his wife know what has happened and have been great supporting us.

I spend hours and hours searching the internet for groups in the wee small hours for info, and the ones Peter1975 kindly gave me to look at. I pick and choose when/if to tell my OH of what I have found, mindful of his mental state which was so fragile especially the first few weeks after his initial arrest.

He said he felt like walking onto the rail tracks near us as he saw he had no chance against 2 siblings and it would be 2 against 1, and how could he prove he’s innocent when he doesn’t know them and definitely doesn’t remember them but as I posted previously he would have come into contact with them in his job.

It’s tearing us apart wondering why 2 now teenagers would make such hellish accusations approx 9 years after the event(s), why him and why now.

The Police said to me ‘we listen to both sides, we are fair’ which I find totally laughable as they have only listened to the complainants as my OH on duty solicitor told him to ‘no comment’ the entire interview. We are taking all the solicitors advice as the firm seems to be one of if not thee best in our area, but as we are not eligible for Legal Aid we are going to face probable hefty fees on top of the sheer hell of being falsely accused.

[Peter1975]

Your OH doesn't have to prove his innocence, it is for the prosecution to prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and in Scotland, a jury has two options for an acquittal, not guilty and not proven. (at least for now)

The fact that there is more than one complainer doesn't mean he is more likely to be convicted either. I can recall a teacher accused by 5 pupils that was acquitted. Two liars means there is more chance of one or both of them slipping up while your OH will be consistent because he is telling the truth. On the other hand, depending on the facts of the case, they may be too consistent which, coupled with the fact they are siblings, will raise questions about them colluding with one another. Again, you don't have to prove this, but it could be enough to put doubts in a jury's mind.

As for motive, it could be that they are after some compensation. The Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority (CICA) has a sliding scale of payments depending on the seriousness of the offence and if there has been "psychological injuries" but there may be further financial gain in suing the local authority too. You can make a subject access request to CICA under the data protection act and they will be able to tell you if a claim has been made against your OH, but they won't be able to tell you who made the claim or for how much.

It may be that there isn't really a motive. Sometimes a false accusation is made as an excuse or a cry for attention and it snowballs beyond the control of the accuser. It's far from uncommon for parents or friends to escalate the complaint to the police after being told some cock and bull story. Perhaps the sibling got involved because they wanted to help.

You might ask why pick on your OH and it could help here if your OH was strict or sometimes disliked in whatever role he had, but it could just be that they picked on him randomly after seeing him on facebook or whatever. It might be worth your while checking social media for any old photos they might have seen and made use of. It's also advised you snoop on the accusers social media if you can and take screenshots of anything that might be relevant such as posts referencing coming into money.

My apologies for not previously highlighting FACT who specialise in FA's in an occupational setting, their details are in the useful info section. Please let me know if they need updating.

[Batmother]

Thanks for your valuable input again here Peter1975. We had explored the idea that money might be a motivator, especially in this current tough financial climate, and also could it be that these 2 have been abused/damaged by someone but they cannot bear to acknowledge it’s a family member etc so have ‘projected’ this all onto ‘an other’? Who knows, but we are constantly going over why/why now/why wait 9 years/what has been the trigger to come out with this now.

Maybe too much info here, but I too was sexually assaulted as a child by a family friend, my Fathers best friend and I told not a soul at the time.
Every time I tried to tell my Mother and Father I physically couldn’t speak and my mouth dried up with my heart thumping, thinking, this is my Fathers best friend who sometimes stayed all week due to his job how would they believe me or deal with it. It was only when my own daughter was sadly sexually assault and had the courage at 9 years old to tell me that the ‘dam burst’ for me.

I was finally able to tell my Family what had happened to me some 24 years before, but it took my own daughters terrible ordeal for me to speak up, plus the fact my Father had died and also the monster who had assaulted me. When I told my story my older sister (18 years my senior) she then told us all she had been assaulted by my attackers Son. What a family, it also came out in the wash my attacker had been sexually assaulting his own 2 daughters for years.

The reason I shared all this, is because my OH knows what I went through, and what my/our daughter went through and how badly affected she was.

There is no way on this earth he would do anything untoward any child or anyone like what these girls are saying. I was almost physically sick when I heard the accusation(s) and it brought to the surface my trauma and also my daughter was in a mess.

Her case was dropped by the Crown as they said the defence lawyer would be merciless and didn’t think my daughter would be up to going through a trial in the witness box, this was in 2000. I wish I would have done more or appealed their decision but hind sight is an ‘exact science’.

.I am not one of these women who bury their heads in the sand types. I am no one’s mug, if I thought my OH had done anything at all either I would be gone or he would be ‘punted’ right out my life.

He has been advised we might not get any update/disclosure(s) for ‘months and months’ according to the Solicitor he/we saw at the Court so will just have to try and plod through each day.


I will update on here when we are given any other news of note, and again can’t thank you enough Peter1975 and also CaseHardened for being on here still supporting people.

Bless you both or if you believe in God, God bless you both, but after the last 5 traumatic years I have had ‘the big Man’ is in the bin for me anyway.

[Peter1975]

I believe that's known as "perpetrator substitution" and there is some literature on the subject online. Another, hotly disputed psychological phenomena is recovered or repressed memory, which I don't think is a proper scientific term but involves the belief that traumatic memories can be repressed until 'recovered' under hypnosis ( I think!. The BFMS would know much more than me here). Memory experts such as Dr Julia Shaw have done a lot of work on the malleability of memory and the development of false memories either independently or through suggestion. I think it was Dr Shaw that said that memory is not like a video you can rewind and watch again, it's more like a wikipedia page that you can go in and change, and other people can change it too. It's more than possible for someone to blame their problems in life on fictitious abuse and actually develop false memories of that abuse for instance.

However, while all this may be interesting to students of psychology, unless there is some evidence such as therapy notes (in which case an expert witness might be allowed to help the jury) it's unlikely to come up at trial and it's probably best to keep it simple. A prosecutor should be bound by their code of ethics to be fair but some of them are *******s and will twist anything around to score a point.There is no need to clutch at straws here or drive yourselves round the bend speculating, and besides, the majority of liars know they're lying. It can be helpful if there is a clear motive to lie but it's not fatal to a case if all you can say is that you don't know or remember anything about the accusers and have heard they might be entitled to compensation but otherwise have no clue.

There are many people in the support groups that have experienced 'the other side' so you are far from alone in having personal experience of abuse, although I am very sorry to hear it, this will stand you and your OH in good stead in understanding why the system works the way it does, even if it is maddening that while great thought has been given to improving the experience of the complainant, defendants going through an arguably more gruelling process don't seem to be regarded at all. It's unlikely now that a barrister or advocate would be allowed to be merciless with a complainant by a judge for instance and some lines of questioning are prohibited altogether but many lawyers would also point out that bullying a witness to tears is more likely to elicit sympathy from the jury than it is to produce useful evidence or a sudden confession. Trials are not like TV and are usually absent of drama, some people recommend attending trials to familiarise yourself with how they are conducted if possible. The closest approximation I have seen to an actual trial are old episodes of Crown Court on Youtube, although how they translate to the Scottish experience I can't say.

I'm afraid that the disclosure process in Scotland is a complete mystery to me but it is common in E&W for some evidence helpful to the defence to be disclosed close to the trial. It is not supposed to work like this but sadly, the wheels of justice turn very slowly. One key difference I do know of is that in some circumstances, Scottish lawyers are allowed to take a pre trial statement from witnesses rather than rely on just the police interview. This is known as precognition. Anyway, hang in there, I'm sure your lawyer will be on top of it.

I could be horribly out of date here and it may not be the same in Scotland at all but the legal aid threshold in E&W is (or used to be)

[Peter1975]

Curses, the software has cut off the end of my post!

I went on to say that unless the situation has changed or is different in Scotland, the threshold for legal aid is higher than some people think and it's worth checking because, most unfairly, those entitled to legal aid but choosing to pay privately are unable to claim back any of their costs whereas those that apply for legal aid and are turned down can at least claim back a portion of their costs at lower legal aid rates. There is a calculator online here: https://www.slab.org.uk/new-to-legal...nd-assistance/

[Batmother]

Appreciate you replying again here Peter1975 p, as I know you probably have better things to do on a Friday night. My OH has a not bad private pension and we have a bit of money in savings. I used the calculator you kindly supplied and as I thought we have zero chance of Legal Aid, so bloody angry that we worked both paid into NI/system for 40+ years, saved for his retirement and my early retirement only to be face with this nightmare and having to pay for the privilege when they will be getting everything paid for and believed (so far).

His solicitor was only able to verbally tell us the allegations and the date it was supposed to have started, we were not allowed a copy or to take an image on my phone, but as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts there is already doubt about their story surrounding the date(s) they have given and where this was all meant to have taken place. Our Solicitor did previously say ‘we will go through their allegations line by line’. Part of me cannot wait but it was hard even trying to digest the charges being read out, it was like an out of body experience.

We will fight this garbage all the way, no other thing for it.

Just one more thing to mention. The court set bail conditions which were more lenient than what the Police had set when he was released under investigation think it’s officially call ‘Investigative Liberation’ up here in Scotland.

We couldn’t quite believe if we had heard the solicitor properly, and I asked her if she was absolutely sure and she said ‘yes definitely” so that was at least one positive so far….hope more to come. Thanks again for reading and replying, we don’t feel so alone.