All joining together to stop rape.

[Snoopyseed]

This is a topic covering a lot of things mentioned in other forums.It has a message at the end, but a few things need to spoken about before that message is reached.I do not wish to enter into any more debates, nor do i wish to see any more threads about who suffers the worst on the forum.I would love to see everyone joining together, against the real probelm , and that is the rapists.If they didnt rape anyone there would be no victims, or anyone to accuse anyone of rape.I know that , this is unrealistic right now, but the more we continue to fight against the rapists, the less chance of our expereinces happening to the next generation.

Originally posted by maria@28th September 2004 - 10:33 AM
THE MONEY POT is ..... what falsely accusing people get once they have got there conviction regardless to the falsey accused being innocent either being told to take a plea bargain when they are innocent and the so called victims get paid out from the state NICE BIG PAY OUT

Quoted post

Let me make this very clear. I am in the UK i do not know where you are in the world, but i can assure you from speaking with members of the Sapphire Unit, who form part of the London Metroploitan Police, that victims do not get a big fat pay out.There seems to be much illusion about the compensation system.There is no big fat pay out, or a big fat cheque, or a money pot either.Any compensation awarded (and most victims dont ask for money for there injuries as it feels like thye have been paid to be raped) BARELY covers the time taken off work to recover.Even if a person is crying wolf (which i beleive is rare and dont wish to enter into any debate about ) the compensation awarded would not even amount to a half a years time taken off work.
There is a lot of illusion about the compensation system, i know personally of a few people who have received compensation (genuine survivors by the way) and the money received was insulting (and thats a mild word compared to the ones used by the survivors)
Lets get real here.There is no fat money pot.And you cannot go out and accuse anyone of a crime if you wanted to either.
For a crime to go to court there needs to be strong evidence/reason that is in the publics best interests, when in court a vigourous trial where many qualified leagl members examine evidence and listen to the accounts.A jury of 12 then decide on the verdict.
People cant just walk into a court and convince everyone that a person has raped them, it has been made out that this goes on on numerous occasions.Rape is the most under reported crime going.

Lest move away from this thread as it is not constructive.People have many opinions.
I base mine from conversations i have had with rape oraginsations such as Rape Crisis Units,The Sapphire Unit,Metropolitan Police,Abcvictimsbreakfree (my group with over 130 genuine survivors who have been through the courts)My own expereince of the courts and prison system, and UK Crime Statistics published by the Met.Police,Coversations with Solicitors, and Youth Justice Workers.

Lets stop this thread about those falsly accusing others get fat cheques as it is false.There is no eveidence,statistics or proof that backs up these claims Indeed i have even asked some of the above orgainsations if it were true. (no)

I have already mentioned i would not enter into a debate like this but i feel with the misleading information on this board, that if there were genenuine survivors reading this (and i know thye do) they may feel put off about reporting a crime, or awkward about there right to apply for compensation .

I recently also spoke to someone within the prison system to see who on the rapists wing has been falsy accused, or is innocent or claiming to be innocent.
Of 30 inmates (this was also a young offenders institute, im yet to make contact with anyone from a prison with over 25's)

2 people claimed to be falsy accused/innocent.

Our police do a remarkable job in locking up offenders, many of who are guilty.
And i give contiinuing praise to organisations such as Womens Aid and The Sapphire Unit who deal with thousands and thousands of calls each year.
Yes there are some people in prison who are innocent, and there are people walking the streets who are guilty.We all know this, so lets not keep dragging this out.
I also would like to say to those who are falsly accused or rape, i wholeheartdly feel that if thye can prove their innocence such as a member on here known as Ashley (and i take my hat off to him for all the courgae he has shown in sharing his story and my heart truly goes out to him as i feel that he is an innocnet man, who i hope will keep reaching for the moon, and recover)
Then the women/men doing the false accusations should also have some form of punishment, and psychiatric assessments.Rape is not something you would want people to know happened to you.To say it has happened when it hasnt is making a mockery out of genuine victims.

Those fasly accused seems to be a hot topic here on these boards, but its going round and round in circles. I think that a good number of you could quite easily get together, and join with those who have genunly been raped to put a stop to rape full stop.No one is going to get anywhere if thye keep saying so and soo is suffering worse.At the end of the day we all wish that rape would go away, then all parties involved would be able to recover.
This is an unrealistic vision right now, but if we all team up, those raped and those falsy accused of rape (as Ashley as pointed out we both seem to suffer PTSD,Suicidal Thoughts,Depression ect) and join a campaign to put a stop to rape full stop, then we may all get closer to the same goal.That no man or women is raped, and no man or women is falsy accused of rape.
Like i said at the moment that is unrealistic but the more pe9ople who speak out, the more people who shout, the louder the shouts will be heard by those in places of power.
We all need to put our collective energies into stopping rape, full stop.
We are all hurting. We have established that.
Lets put that hurt into something useful.

Snoopy

[diana_holbourn]

Joining together to stop rape sounds like a good idea in principle. Do you have any suggestions as to practical things people could do?

[Saffron]

Originally posted by Snoopyseed@11th October 2004 - 01:39 AM
Lets get real here.There is no fat money pot.And you cannot go out and accuse anyone of a crime if you wanted to either.
For a crime to go to court there needs to be strong evidence/reason that is in the publics best interests, when in court a vigourous trial where many qualified leagl members examine evidence and listen to the accounts.A jury of 12 then decide on the verdict.
People cant just walk into a court and convince everyone that a person has raped them, it has been made out that this goes on on numerous occasions.Rape is the most under reported crime going.

Lets stop this thread about those falsly accusing others get fat cheques as it is false.There is no eveidence,statistics or proof that backs up these claims Indeed i have even asked some of the above orgainsations if it were true. (no)

I recently also spoke to someone within the prison system to see who on the rapists wing has been falsy accused, or is innocent or claiming to be innocent.
Of 30 inmates (this was also a young offenders institute, im yet to make contact with anyone from a prison with over 25's)

2 people claimed to be falsy accused/innocent.

Our police do a remarkable job in locking up offenders, many of who are guilty.
And i give contiinuing praise to organisations such as Womens Aid and The Sapphire Unit who deal with thousands and thousands of calls each year.
Yes there are some people in prison who are innocent, and there are people walking the streets who are guilty.We all know this, so lets not keep dragging this out.

Those fasly accused seems to be a hot topic here on these boards, but its going round and round in circles. I think that a good number of you could quite easily get together, and join with those who have genunly been raped to put a stop to rape full stop.

Quoted post

Hi Snoopy

I hope I have managed to isolate the sections of your post that I wish to comment on above - I am not sure how the quote option works yet!

I appplaud the sentiment of your post, and I understand that you do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the suffering of rape victims versus the falsely accused. I do not wish to pursue this either. However, I have to respond to a few of the things you have written.

First of all, you CAN go out and falsely accuse someone of rape, and these cases DO get to trial, although I will admit they are isolated. Myself, Raincloud, Wildmouse, Maria and Ashley are all regular posters here, and we have all been affected by false allegations. Sex crimes (rape and assault) are such political hot potatoes that the CPS are preferring to press charges based merely on one person's word, and not on any forensic/corroborating evidence. This is absolutely true.

People CAN just walk into a court and convince the jury that they are telling the truth - the jury are far more inclined to believe the "victim" than the defendant - there is an immediate reaction of "well, he must have done something to her, or she wouldn't be here today, and the CPS wouldn't have pressed charges". remember that ANYONE can sit on a jury - as long as they are on the electoral roll. They do not have to prove any level of reason or intelligence.

With regard to your contact at the "rape wing" of a prison - 2 out of 30 is over 6% of convicts. Surely that is not acceptable? I admit that these people only "claim" to be innocent, but my husband is one of them, and I know that if it can happen to him, it can happen to other people as well! Additionally, many people who have been convicted are afraid of persistently protesting their innocence - they fear it may prevent them being allowed out on any sort of early release.

And of course false allegations are a hot topic on this site - similar to rape, the emotions engendered by a false allegation run exceptionally high. And this is because it is such a despicable crime, so utterly twisted and sick. Imagine being accused of it, and not having any defence against it, other than your own, truthful version of events? It is natural that those who have been affected by a false allegation should want to shout about the injustice we have been served!

I agree, that in an ideal world, rape would not exist. But at the risk of sounding dramatic, it is one of the oldest crimes of the human race. It is a basic evil that is ingrained into some, like murder, torture or abuse of any other kind.

[Snoopyseed]

Originally posted by Saffron@11th October 2004 - 02:01 PM
Hi Snoopy

I hope I have managed to isolate the sections of your post that I wish to comment on above - I am not sure how the quote option works yet!

I appplaud the sentiment of your post, and I understand that you do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the suffering of rape victims versus the falsely accused. I do not wish to pursue this either. However, I have to respond to a few of the things you have written.

First of all, you CAN go out and falsely accuse someone of rape, and these cases DO get to trial, although I will admit they are isolated. Myself, Raincloud, Wildmouse, Maria and Ashley are all regular posters here, and we have all been affected by false allegations. Sex crimes (rape and assault) are such political hot potatoes that the CPS are preferring to press charges based merely on one person's word, and not on any forensic/corroborating evidence. This is absolutely true.

People CAN just walk into a court and convince the jury that they are telling the truth - the jury are far more inclined to believe the "victim" than the defendant - there is an immediate reaction of "well, he must have done something to her, or she wouldn't be here today, and the CPS wouldn't have pressed charges". remember that ANYONE can sit on a jury - as long as they are on the electoral roll. They do not have to prove any level of reason or intelligence.

With regard to your contact at the "rape wing" of a prison - 2 out of 30 is over 6% of convicts. Surely that is not acceptable? I admit that these people only "claim" to be innocent, but my husband is one of them, and I know that if it can happen to him, it can happen to other people as well! Additionally, many people who have been convicted are afraid of persistently protesting their innocence - they fear it may prevent them being allowed out on any sort of early release.

And of course false allegations are a hot topic on this site - similar to rape, the emotions engendered by a false allegation run exceptionally high. And this is because it is such a despicable crime, so utterly twisted and sick. Imagine being accused of it, and not having any defence against it, other than your own, truthful version of events? It is natural that those who have been affected by a false allegation should want to shout about the injustice we have been served!

I agree, that in an ideal world, rape would not exist. But at the risk of sounding dramatic, it is one of the oldest crimes of the human race. It is a basic evil that is ingrained into some, like murder, torture or abuse of any other kind.

Quoted post

Hello Saffron yes your points are absolutly true, and i do know that false accusations of rape do go on, but my point is now we have all establised that, what we are left with is a lot of people both genuine victims of rape and those falsy accused of rape suffering, when thye shouldnt be.Lets get our collective energies together to form some sort of campaign to protest more about preventing rape than ever before, there are enough angry people around all because of rape, that a new campaign could be the loudest campaign yet.
Its time we all joined in hitting back at the reall villains which are at the end of the day for one reason or another...are still walking the streets

Snoopy

[Snoopyseed]

Originally posted by diana_holbourn@11th October 2004 - 11:16 AM
Joining together to stop rape sounds like a good idea in principle. Do you have any suggestions as to practical things people could do?

Quoted post

In America there is a campaign called Men Against Rape, i dont know if that version is here in the UK.It basically consist of a whole group of men standing up to educate others about the importance of not raping others. This group goes into high schools and points out the fact that rape will not be tolerated, and how high the punishement could be.

A similar campaign could be set up to educate people in this country about rape, about the importance of not commiting rape, and about what to do if you have been falsy accused of rape.It could also helps to educate those accused of rape, those who have been raped, and those with urges to commit rape.This group could begin with schools, and work its way into the workplace also.These days there are reports of children as young as two being raped.The only way we can really hit home to people to prevent rape is to begin to get some positive role models out there, and some survivors, and survivors who have been falsy accused to let others know of the dramatic impact rape has had on them.
This group could offer advice,suggestions and have strong links with the police and other important organisations linked to helping everyone who has been affected by rape.
If genuine survivors of rape, and those falsy accused joined to gether to do this, there would be a diverse campaign going round to contribute in shortening the crime figures of rape, and those accused of rape.I also feel it important top include in the campaign information about women falsy accusing others of rape also.Maybe this campaign could also help to highlight the fact that punishment needs to be served to those who are found to be falsy accusing others of rape, when in fact no rape took place.Not only do these false accusations waste everyones time, thye make a mockery out of genuine victimes, and leave the genuine victims afraid to report their case to the police in case thye wont be believed.

........Just a thought , anyone else who has ideas about how we can put our energies into setting up a campaign to help stop rape please add your input, perhaps this may go somehwere

Snoopy

[Saffron]

Originally posted by Snoopyseed@12th October 2004 - 06:33 AM
In America there is a campaign called Men Against Rape, i dont know if that version is here in the UK.It basically consist of a whole group of men standing up to educate others about the importance of not raping others. This group goes into high schools and points out the fact that rape will not be tolerated, and how high the punishement could be.

A similar campaign could be set up to educate people in this country about rape, about the importance of not commiting rape, and about what to do if you have been falsy accused of rape.It could also helps to educate those accused of rape, those who have been raped, and those with urges to commit rape.This group could begin with schools, and work its way into the workplace also.These days there are reports of children as young as two being raped.The only way we can really hit home to people to prevent rape is to begin to get some positive role models out there, and some survivors, and survivors who have been falsy accused to let others know of the dramatic impact rape has had on them.
This group could offer advice,suggestions and have strong links with the police and other important organisations linked to helping everyone who has been affected by rape.
If genuine survivors of rape, and those falsy accused joined to gether to do this, there would be a diverse campaign going round to contribute in shortening the crime figures of rape, and those accused of rape.I also feel it important top include in the campaign information about women falsy accusing others of rape also.Maybe this campaign could also help to highlight the fact that punishment needs to be served to those who are found to be falsy accusing others of rape, when in fact no rape took place.Not only do these false accusations waste everyones time, thye make a mockery out of genuine victimes, and leave the genuine victims afraid to report their case to the police in case thye wont be believed.

........Just a thought , anyone else who has ideas about how we can put our energies into setting up a campaign to help stop rape please add your input, perhaps this may go somehwere

Snoopy

Quoted post

Hi Snoopy

excellent idea, let me know how I can help.

[webmoo]

Originally posted by Saffron@11th October 2004 - 02:01 PM
I hope I have managed to isolate the sections of your post that I wish to comment on above - I am not sure how the quote option works yet!

Quoted post

Hi Saffron et al,

I've just gone through and totally re-written the "how to quote posts" section in the FAQ. I presume you've also noticed the new links at the bottom of the page above the post buttons. Have a look and a read and let me know if it's better, or if you have any further suggestions on anything that needs clarifying, or changing - I'm open to suggestions. Just PM me or email me!

Thanks,

Phil

[Guest_maria_*]

Originally posted by Saffron@11th October 2004 - 02:01 PM
Hi Snoopy

I appplaud the sentiment of your post, and I understand that you do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the suffering of rape victims versus the falsely accused. I do not wish to pursue this either. However, I have to respond to a few of the things you have written.

First of all, you CAN go out and falsely accuse someone of rape, and these cases DO get to trial, although I will admit they are isolated. Myself, Raincloud, Wildmouse, Maria and Ashley are all regular posters here, and we have all been affected by false allegations. Sex crimes (rape and assault) are such political hot potatoes that the CPS are preferring to press charges based merely on one person's word, and not on any forensic/corroborating evidence. This is absolutely true.

People CAN just walk into a court and convince the jury that they are telling the truth - the jury are far more inclined to believe the "victim" than the defendant - there is an immediate reaction of "well, he must have done something to her, or she wouldn't be here today, and the CPS wouldn't have pressed charges". remember that ANYONE can sit on a jury - as long as they are on the electoral roll. They do not have to prove any level of reason or intelligence.

With regard to your contact at the "rape wing" of a prison - 2 out of 30 is over 6% of convicts. Surely that is not acceptable? I admit that these people only "claim" to be innocent, but my husband is one of them, and I know that if it can happen to him, it can happen to other people as well! Additionally, many people who have been convicted are afraid of persistently protesting their innocence - they fear it may prevent them being allowed out on any sort of early release.

And of course false allegations are a hot topic on this site - similar to rape, the emotions engendered by a false allegation run exceptionally high. And this is because it is such a despicable crime, so utterly twisted and sick. Imagine being accused of it, and not having any defence against it, other than your own, truthful version of events? It is natural that those who have been affected by a false allegation should want to shout about the injustice we have been served!

I agree, that in an ideal world, rape would not exist. But at the risk of sounding dramatic, it is one of the oldest crimes of the human race. It is a basic evil that is ingrained into some, like murder, torture or abuse of any other kind.

Quoted post

hi all well saffron you have just said all what i would have said i just want to add a little more snoopy as you know we all have a horrible taste left in our mouths due to what has happend to us all you are a victim and so our the others on this board I THOUGHT THIS BOARD WAS AND IS 4 ALL USERS we all have our own opions and our all entitled to them my son is a victim and yes sorry to dissapoint you but there is a money pot that i have proof off that fact and as this is a forum for help and advice i will carry on using it regardless this board has helped me and a lot of others on here sorry if i've offended you in anyway but i'm here 2 speak my mind and get help..........

[Snoopyseed]

Originally posted by Guest_maria_*@24th October 2004 - 01:14 PM
yes sorry to dissapoint you but there is a money pot that i have proof off that fact and as this is a forum for help and advice i will carry on using it regardless this board has helped me and a lot of others on here sorry if i've offended you in anyway but i'm here 2 speak my mind and get help..........

Quoted post

You havent dissapointed me or offended me, your right this board is open to all viewpoints, i just prefer to review statistics and speak to barristers,solicitors,QC's Youth Justice, and womens organisations about any queries i have about points that are raised on here, according to all of the above there really is no money pot.Im sorry if this is what you have seen/heard but it just isnt the case, again i have spoken to people from London, here in the UK it may be different where you are.Im not pointing this out to offend you in any way, i just feel that a reply to your allegations is needed, as it may put genuine victims of rape from claiming compensation, which at the end of the day ,they really are entitled to, and as already pointed out in previuos posts barley covers the cost of time taken off work anyway. m not going to comment on this point any further, as i have spoken to various people from
the above organisations about this matter, and have also spoken to genuine victims who have told me there views on compensation.It has to be taken note of that compensation is also paid out according to the amount of damage psychologically/emotionally/physically inflicted and in what ways a person has suffered from the crime, a high payout from the compensation system would equal a seriously horrific crime that happened to the person receiving the compensation, if there were a huge money pot, as you put it, there wouldnt be any money in the criminal compensation system to speak of, as im sure it would of run out many, many years ago.
If you would like further information on the compensation matter, there is the Criminal Compensation System you can contact.
As always no view points offend me at all, we have each had different experiences and have been told different things by various members of the legal system, i for one never take one persons word for the gospel truth, i always check with a number of sources, that way im always up to date about whats going on, as in this day and age, the law can change about matters very quickly.
It seems only yesterday that rape victims were actually campaigning for more money from the compensation system , because any payments made if at all, were dam right insulting, and often not worth claiming for


Snoopy

[maria]

hi snoopy i'm in the uk and i agree to the people who are genuin should get a payout what i'm saying is its far to easy for people to make these allegations and get paid out i know for a fact that the girl if you can call her that has done this for one reason and one only and that is compensation her mother did it her mothers friend did it and she has done it so have her sisters they know how to work the system they no how to get this moneyand ruin innocent peoples lives this is why it makes it a damm sight harder for true victims to come forward and to be honest i think it stinks

[val lavender]

Hi Snoopy

just for your information page 31 of the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority quotes the following figures

one incident of non-consensual vaginal or anal intercourse ?11.000.00

if this results in permenantly disabling mental illness ?27.000.00

whilst these figures are an insult to anyone who has been genuinely raped they are also substantial incentives to people who wish to make false allegations for whatever reason

What is also worrying is that the section of the CICA that deals with fraudulent rape claims is the largest component of their fraud unit

Regards

Val

[maria]

hi val thanks for that for some reason snoopy doesn't beleive people do this because of a money pot i no for a fact they do the girl who did it to my son is a very wealthy young lady she has 4 convictions under her belt all different people not only has she ruined my son's life but others as well theres probably more but we don't no of them as yet this person is also still a virgin and never been touched hows that for the money pot

[val lavender]

Hi Maria

the other classic case in respect of people making false rape allegations for cash is that of Nadine Milroy-Sloane. She falsely accused Neil and Christine Hamilton, received ?50.000.00 in fees from a newspaper, submitted a claim to the CICA and then it all fell apart on her and she ended up with a three year stay in on of HM Hotels for her trouble

There are plenty of other cases that are less well documented. It is interesting to note that several countries have dropped all compensation payments to rape victims, and now offer comprehensive councilling packages and re-location. The level of accusations in these countries has dropped sharply almost immediatly.

The availability of large sums of cash is seen by many as a potential reason for some of the large number of false allegations currently being made in the UK.

Incidentally, it is possible, by paying a nominal fee, to obtain details from the CICA, under the provisions of the Data Protection Act and public Fteedom of Information Act, of any files that you are mentioned in in respect of any claims made under the Criminal Compensation Scheme.

Having said that, no compensation is currentlt available to victims of false allegations as they are not perceived as crimes of violence.

Val

[maria]

hi val i no for a fact that this girl will be paid out on or around her 18th birthday we were told that. as shane had to take a plea bargain in fear of going to prison so in other words they got a conviction even tho the judge did not beleive her or did he want to sentence him, regardless to whether it went to trial or not because he took this plea bargain she will get paid, the other guys that she also accused of which we don't no them also got the same a plea bargain from one and the other two i don't no if they went to prison or noteither way she will get paid out, what makes me sick is the fact that we have it in black and white she has never been touched in anyway shape or form, i just wish she would disapear of the face of the earth the same as the others that falsley accuse

[val lavender]

Hi Marie

if you have firm proof of the fact that she is making serial false allegations get in touch with one of the expose sites

Regards

Val