sexual assault

[Faith]

Makes you actually want to go commit crimes as the punishment is less than if you're falsely accused.

Does it?
I would be very concerned if you wanted to commit the crime you are accused of...

[lawlessone2009]

Agreed, L1. Work-wise it can be difficult. Mr Saffron has however been fortunate enough to secure the job of his dreams, thanks to a little nepotism....and of course him NOT being guilty of the crime he was convicted for. It wasn't easy, but we were fortunate enough to be able to get by on my salary while he was unemployed. He had several nasty job interviews when he was obliged to reveal his conviction, which was very upsetting.

However, the whole thing actually gave him the boot up the backside he needed to quit his old job (which he hated) and to think about what he really wanted to do. He now has a good job in a niche market and, while it doesn't pay masses, he is very well-respected in his field.

So, every cloud and all that. Of course, I do realise that we are incredibly fortunate in this respect and so many don't thave the same good luck as we have enjoyed.

It pleases me greatly that you're sharing that with us all. Even with a, wrongful, conviction the world goes on and that is straight from someone with first hand experience. Someone that has experienced the worst that can happen and came out the other side!

Head up Mike. Positivity in full flow and get on with your life.

I would, strangely, have questions about 'sexuality' directed at your accuser when it goes to trial. I get a feeling that he doesn't like homosexuals. Not straight out questions but subtle ones to draw out his bad side. The situation that you describe didn't warrant a violent assault and subsequent reporting to Police.

If it happened in any manner at all to me, even accidently, I would kindly ask for it not to happen again. I wouldn't clout you and then exaggerate what happened to try and justify the assault. It seems that something genuine has happened and a massive over reaction has resulted. It's almost as if your accusers mind was wanting something to happen so that he could hit you. It never did happen but he feels that it did, reacted and then went running with a justification to make his actions seem fine.

The difficulty here is that both parties have been charged with something. Both parties will feel inclined to ensure that the other is found guilty. You've suffered genuinely and regardless of any actions from yourself there is absolutely no justifications for a violent assault. We are supposed to be an evolved species but it sure doesn't always seem that way.

[Saffron]

As for job... You can get another one! Even become self employed. It may be more difficult but it is not impossible to work again even if convicted. The difficulty is mainly avoiding others finding out about the conviction and so treating you in a different manner than what you are currently used too. It's a horrible situation but not the end of life.

Agreed, L1. Work-wise it can be difficult. Mr Saffron has however been fortunate enough to secure the job of his dreams, thanks to a little nepotism....and of course him NOT being guilty of the crime he was convicted for. It wasn't easy, but we were fortunate enough to be able to get by on my salary while he was unemployed. He had several nasty job interviews when he was obliged to reveal his conviction, which was very upsetting.

However, the whole thing actually gave him the boot up the backside he needed to quit his old job (which he hated) and to think about what he really wanted to do. He now has a good job in a niche market and, while it doesn't pay masses, he is very well-respected in his field.

So, every cloud and all that. Of course, I do realise that we are incredibly fortunate in this respect and so many don't thave the same good luck as we have enjoyed.

[Boys don't cry]

Yeah, amazing that!

Makes you actually want to go commit crimes as the punishment is less than if you're falsely accused.

Sorry but I am not sure about this and in a way I understand.

I don't understand why someone would want to commit a crime but to falsely accuse is also a crime.

But if you are falsely accused you should plead and be :"Not guilty".

Both should get the same time:

Guilty or false accusers.

[lawlessone2009]

Always maintain and believe that you are innocent.
Soon they will offer you a reduction of time in jail if you plead guilty.
If you are innocent :just keep on saying "NOT GUILTY".

Yeah, amazing that!

If you're guilty and plead nice and early you get a reduction in sentencing but if you're innocent and fight to prove it but are found guilty you get the maximum........

Makes you actually want to go commit crimes as the punishment is less than if you're falsely accused.

[Boys don't cry]

Always maintain and believe that you are innocent.
Soon they will offer you a reduction of time in jail if you plead guilty.
If you are innocent :just keep on saying "NOT GUILTY".

[lawlessone2009]

My solicitor wasnt present, i was appointed a duty solicitor at the court, he said i shouldnt have been detained over night, he then came back later , after i had told him everything , to be told he couldnt represent me as he didnt realise he was already defending the guy who had hit and robbed me .

Typical Police competence. You'd think they'd have checked before appointing the duty solicitor! Double charging and then appointing the same legal representation to both accused....



I got another solicitor shortly after , he still hasnt got the interviewing notes , and i have to make appt to see him in a few weeks time.

At the appointment check and see that he has a transcript from the interview. You'll also need (solicitor will obtain) a copy of the complaint against you, given by your accuser during their interview when they made the allegation. A few weeks time is cutting it fine for court if you're in at the end of September...

Yes the police tried to keep tripping me up, they kept trying to make me say i was guilty as it would look better on my charge against the guy, which i couldnt understand why it would, they kept saying say yes i did it and i refused over and over again, in the end they arrested me.

It's the non-obvious ones you need to watch. Some very very cunning Officers out there that are very good at extracting info. No doubt you were asked the same questions over and over in different ways and at different times and in between other questioning... It's extremely difficult to keep track of what's being asked never mind giving the same answers! Designed that way... It's shambolic that they are allowed to invite you in for a little 'chat' but it is actually a full on intensive interview that could make the difference between being released or remanded. It should be made absolutely clear that the situation is deadly serious but for some reason the cops are allowed to pretend to be friendly and 'helpful' looking to 'sort out the mess'... Sneaky, cunning and twisted, all in the apparent name of justice...

[mike15]

My solicitor wasnt present, i was appointed a duty solicitor at the court, he said i shouldnt have been detained over night, he then came back later , after i had told him everything , to be told he couldnt represent me as he didnt realise he was already defending the guy who had hit and robbed me .

I got another solicitor shortly after , he still hasnt got the interviewing notes , and i have to make appt to see him in a few weeks time.

Yes the police tried to keep tripping me up, they kept trying to make me say i was guilty as it would look better on my charge against the guy, which i couldnt understand why it would, they kept saying say yes i did it and i refused over and over again, in the end they arrested me

[lawlessone2009]

I found it odd that a Scots lawyer would refer to it as 'taking the 5th Amendment'.

Maybe they were being sarcastic?

[lawlessone2009]

I was detained on the sunday late eve and then arrested a few hours after, as the monday was a bank holiday i had to spend 2 nights in the cells, i was then escorted to the court and locked in a holding cell with 6 people then led handcuffed up to the judge . my solicitor pled not guilty and asked for bail the prosc fiscal said no objections and given bail with usual conditions.

The same police that arrested the guy who punched and robbed me were the same that came back and arrested mw the next eve, i asked them why it had taken them so long to come back to arrest me if i was really guilty and they said it was the start of there shift .

There was no witness in my flat, i put it down to his paranoia and the voices he has.

The reply from lawlessone is amazing but also very frightening. My eyes are permanently open now and ion the future of what 1 moment is someones life can affect them for the rest of their lives.

I looked up the possible outcomes and saw up to 12 months in jail or fine, if the judge deems me guilty, as 1st offender what do you think i would more likely get ? Prison would destroy my life, loose my job, loose my house, become homeless etc etc

I cant believe the police were caring when i had been hit to become nasty when arresting me , a police friend said i should have said no cooment throughout the interview, but hindsight is a wonderful thing..

Thanks for all your support so far , i feel like a weight is coming off my shoulders

Unlucky you. 1 night is hellish but two nights is horrendous.

Sounds like general plod have made the arrests then. That could be good as they won't be specialised in sexual offences so may not have asked the correct questions during the interview to entrap you. They may also not have asked the correct questions in the correct manner. Has your solicitor had a copy of the interview yet or were they present during it?

Yep, 1 little thing can have drastic effects on the rest of your life. All or nothing and all that jazz...

Just now is a nasty time for you. You're living in the unknown. Obviously being on here and asking questions and getting info does help to a degree but you will still be pretty raw and confused. This dies down with time.

Is your home mortgaged? If it is then have someone close to you deal with it IF you are sent to prison. Rent the house out to ensure the mortgage continues to be paid...

As for job... You can get another one! Even become self employed. It may be more difficult but it is not impossible to work again even if convicted. The difficulty is mainly avoiding others finding out about the conviction and so treating you in a different manner than what you are currently used too. It's a horrible situation but not the end of life.

It certainly doesn't destroy life. A 12 month sentence would be 6 months odd worth of jail time. Read books, study, learn, evolve, rest. It will drag but at least you're counting months rather than years.

The sentencing options ARE options. It depends on what the findings are. There are two sides to the coin when it comes to offences and it's made nice and easy for the judge by 'Sentencing Guidelines' (for an idea: http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.g...guidelines.htm). They basically tick boxes (in a roundabout way) on a bit of paper and, if found guilty, they add the ticks up and decide how guilty you are. They look for consciousness and premeditation amongst other things which is where your fancy 'specialist solicitor/advocate' comes into play. They don't just stand there and state a case (anyone can do that!) but instead they steer the case towards 'Not Guilty' but cover as many bases on the way there to ensure that if you are found guilty then your sentencing is at the lower side of the scale. It's a massive mind waster!!!


Court's still out on whether a 'no comment' interview would've done you any favours. It depends on the circumstances. If there is one person making an allegation against another then the first thing the Police need to do is make certain that the accused was 'at the scene'. If you go entirely 'no comment' and there is no other evidence (CCTV, DNA etc) then they can't tie you to the scene so can't really go anywhere towards charging. If you said 'yeah, I was there and this and that happened but I didn't do it...' then they could possibly have enough now to charge, depending on the allegation. It's a minefield! Going 'no comment' is incredibly difficult and generally results in the Police interviewing for hours and trying every single trick in the book to 'make' you talk, I wouldn't fancy my chances personally... Having a solicitor present (a good one!) can make the difference between simply answering questions which are justly asked and incriminating yourself.

You've done nothing wrong and you sure ain't any worse than anyone else that's faced a Police interview and answered questions. Unless you've straight up confessed to a crime, written a 'sorry' letter or signed a confession then a decent solicitor can explain off virtually anything said in interview. It's pretty critical though that your solicitor knows what was said at the interview so a transcript should be made available and he/she should run through it with you and clarify any discrepancies.

[Rights Fighter]

Yep our posts crossed.

I found it odd that a Scots lawyer would refer to it as 'taking the 5th Amendment'.

Yes MPs and those who run the country do it all the time. Either remain silent or answer a question with the answer to another question that has not yet been asked.

[lawlessone2009]

As I wasn't sure if there is a 5th Amendment in Scots law.............. I was hoping you would come on and answer that one (while I read the OPs post via email) but then when I got here, you had answered before me! YEAYYYY! While I was whizzing into the forums having clicked the link I thought 'Where's Lawlessone he can answer this one!'

LoL...



As for 'taking the 5th'... It exists everywhere, the right to silence... Ha ha ha... It's been b45tardised unfortunately and only politicians and bankers are allowed to use it this day without implying clear guilt!

And they generally ARE guilty.

[mike15]

I was detained on the sunday late eve and then arrested a few hours after, as the monday was a bank holiday i had to spend 2 nights in the cells, i was then escorted to the court and locked in a holding cell with 6 people then led handcuffed up to the judge . my solicitor pled not guilty and asked for bail the prosc fiscal said no objections and given bail with usual conditions.

The same police that arrested the guy who punched and robbed me were the same that came back and arrested mw the next eve, i asked them why it had taken them so long to come back to arrest me if i was really guilty and they said it was the start of there shift .

There was no witness in my flat, i put it down to his paranoia and the voices he has.

The reply from lawlessone is amazing but also very frightening. My eyes are permanently open now and ion the future of what 1 moment is someones life can affect them for the rest of their lives.

I looked up the possible outcomes and saw up to 12 months in jail or fine, if the judge deems me guilty, as 1st offender what do you think i would more likely get ? Prison would destroy my life, loose my job, loose my house, become homeless etc etc

I cant believe the police were caring when i had been hit to become nasty when arresting me , a police friend said i should have said no cooment throughout the interview, but hindsight is a wonderful thing..

Thanks for all your support so far , i feel like a weight is coming off my shoulders

[Rights Fighter]

You quote me and then ask where I am... Priceless...

As I wasn't sure if there is a 5th Amendment in Scots law.............. I was hoping you would come on and answer that one (while I read the OPs post via email) but then when I got here, you had answered before me! YEAYYYY! While I was whizzing into the forums having clicked the link I thought 'Where's Lawlessone he can answer this one!'

[lawlessone2009]

I was about to answer with 'that is in USA not the UK as far as I know. Where's Lawlessone as he will know a little more about Scots law!"

You quote me and then ask where I am... Priceless...

The main problem I actually see here is that although the charge may seem serious to the OP I don't think the Police will view it as such. If you done a comparison with driving offences you'd be falling into the 'speeding' (rather odd sexual assault charge) category rather than the 'dangerous driving' (rape) one. The actual Police investigation will not be particularly long or intricate. They'll take your initial admittal to something happening, interview you, write a report then drop it into court.

Both parties have been charged with something so it's a real good 'statistics' find for the cops.

I'd imagine that the charge is under the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2009/9/contents). The actual act is a minefield and just about covers every single situation that you could find yourself in where someone may have a reason to complain either through genuine misdemeanor or through false accusation. The Police must be worked off their asses attempting to circumvent the huge increase in offences that have their own little detailed section! Suppose the Police are now being forced more than ever to be 'specialists' in their fields.

Were the arresting Officers the same people that carried out the interview and subsequently charged you?


As for the actual court case against you. Here's the Scottish 'Penalties' page (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2009/9/schedule/2). It appears to be an 'either way' offence so you can either remain in the Sheriff Court or apply to have it moved to the High Court for a 'trial by jury' in my opinion. I would ask your solicitor about this. It falls to personal belief.

I have absolutely no belief that you will receive a fair trial before simply a sitting judge, they deal with provable facts/circumstances and little else. The 'trial' will be quick, brutal and almost untrackable unless you have experienced the court workings before. Appeals are almost the same as for the High Court. The judges sentencing powers are more limited. The prosecution can apply to move the case to the High Court also if they feel longer sentencing fits the alleged crime.

Trial by jury is a little different. It's not as quick paced and there is far more opportunity for your legal team to present 'YOU' and build the case around you. Juries also have the opportunity to judge you but rather than a single man sitting in a chair there are 15 of them! Increases the chances of escaping a single persons disliking of you astronomically! There are many reasons to prefer a jury trial but equally as many to hate it. There are regional differences in opinion towards homosexual people and injustice can surface if you find yourself in the wrong region. It depends on how evolved your region is! I know that Glasgow is far more accepting of peoples sexual orientation than Ayrshire for instance. Life is running at a different pace and the people are equally different in their views. It's strange but hopefully you've traveled around enough to understand what I am attempting to convey...

Ask your solicitor what they think. Ask them about the possibilities of a jury trial. Seek their views if it is possible to have a jury trial. Possibly sit in a trial by jury before you decide what to do, the public is 99% of the time free to sit and spectate. Treat your pending case with all seriousness, your entire future seems to hinge on it. Realise that rather than boxing yourself into 'one' profession you should be actively exploring the possibilities of several revenue streams just in case one goes wrong. All too often people appear on here that are teachers or medical professionals who really are going to loose their entire lives as they know it simply by a false accusation being made. This causes no end of depression and anxiety and stress. What you must now do is ensure that, even if this goes away, you never keep all your eggs in one basket. Make sure that you are able to continue with life regardless of what is thrown in front of you. Multi-skill.

It is unfortunate that you find yourself in your present situation but embrace it as a wake up call to how vulnerable people make themselves by blindly believing that everyone else is honest and truthful to some degree. There are sick and twisted people out there with agendas and selfish greed ready to pounce at the first opportunity. The Police cannot possibly be expected to be able to identify motives and reasons and generally take an impartial view dealing simply with facts and circumstances. I am not sure if there is anything you could have done differently to avoid what has happened in your situation but what you must do now is 'damage limitation'. You have an opportunity arising shortly to present your case and you must research all avenues and ask questions to ensure that the case that you present covers all the bases and spells out that a false accusation has been made. Your solicitor will be able to guide you but you must first give them something to work with, you need to compile this into something that is short and easily understood. A 'defence statement' (not the actual defence statement to the court!) written by you and presented to your solicitor laying out what happened and what didn't happen along with any relevant facts would be a good place to start.