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If you're going to seek revenge, then you better dig two graves

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  • If you're going to seek revenge, then you better dig two graves

    Hi,

    This is going to be a long one, but I'll keep it as clear and concise as possible, and believe me, I am not going into every detail as there is so much more than I can remember, plus I'd be literally here all day typing it out. There are two FA in my situation. One is my ex wife who I split with 5 years ago, the other my ex partner who I split with 18 months ago.

    I have two children with my ex wife who are between the ages of 7-11, and I have a child under one with my ex partner. In a nutshell, I was unfaithful to my ex partner, contracted an STD and passed it on to her. Without going into full details, she obviously found out and we split. A few weeks after this she made contact and wanted to chat etc, to try and work things out. I obliged, and this happened for a few weeks as she was hot and cold, over emotional and running away, yet would always get back in touch. During these meet ups we had sex in my house as she made it clear she wanted to try and prove to me she was worth it; so effectively trying desperately to regain some self esteem and also make me want her, and for her to feel wanted and loved.

    She decided we should go away for a night with my two children from my ex wife's relationship. We did, shared a family room together and had sex a few times in the bathroom when the children were asleep. Again, this was all instigated by her in an attempt to 'show me what I was missing'.

    A few days later she got in touch asking if just me and her wanted to go away the following weekend, to which I agreed. We went away for two nights and had sex on numerous occasions - fully consensual - instigated by her, and that was that.

    After that weekend she was blowing hot and cold as usual, running away as she couldn't cope with what I'd done, constantly bringing it up, not really wanting to work through it, but was happy to engage in text tennis with me. This happened for a couple of weeks.

    After that period, she got in touch and asked me to meet her to talk, which I obliged. We met and she greeted me with two positive pregnancy tests, and it was quite obvious she had conceived during our alone weekend together. She then suggested we should go away together for a night again that day/night, so we booked and went away. Again, we had consensual sex during that night away.

    She was blowing hot and cold throughout the pregnancy, we rarely met, and when we did she was very emotional bringing up the past, what I'd done, how she is struggling to forgive me etc etc. She basically wanted me to eat humble pie and to feel the agony she was feeling. Nothing I said or did was appeasing her, it was ultimately an illusion for her, wanting me to chase her repeatedly, to no end destination. She wanted to feel wanted and loved, and I could have done anything to show her I loved her and wanted her, but it was never enough. I could have self harmed to show her (I didn't, this is an example of the level I could have gone to) how sorry I am and that I want her back, and even that wouldn't be enough.

    During one her emotional outbursts one day she was calling me everything, referred to me being unfaithful and then followed up by accusing me of raping her in my sleep. I obviously questioned her, asking when did this allegedly happen, what evidence she had and why is she bringing this up now during an argument when she is highly emotional. A couple of months had passed and she would be floating in and out of contact, mainly giving me abuse and telling me what an awful person I am. All she ever wanted in life was to be a mother; she wanted the happy family. Marriage, kids, house etc. She longed for it. She was carrying a child and soon became very manipulating around this and wanted power and control, as it was 'my baby'. I was always going to be secondary, even if we were to patch things up.

    She got in touch a month or so after a quiet spell and said (yet again) that she wanted to work things out and that she would come around the following weekend and we should have sex to see if there's still a spark. These were her exact words. I refused, explaining that that is not the answer and that it is far deeper than having sex to establish if there is still a spark. The following week I received a text off her explaining that she had gone for an early scan to find out the sex of the baby and that she knew what the sex was, but she didn't tell me. I called her some unsavory things as I was annoyed by this as being the father I was going to be the last person to know the sex of my child, and it was quite clear she did it to hurt me.

    The week after that was her 20 week scan, and I'd arranged to be there. The night before I received a text from her asking me not to attend and she told me the sex of the baby.

    After that, a week or so after, she texted me again having a rant and I basically told her she hid the sex of the baby away from me in an attempt to hurt me and get even. She agreed she did act this way to hurt me, and I have text evidence of this. We met, and it was clear she did not want to be there; her mood was off, she was oozing bitterness towards me. I ended up walking out of where we were (politely), and she followed me to the car park. In the car park she ranted at me again and accused me of raping her in my sleep once more. I repeated the same questions as I did the first time.

    I then got told the baby had been born and I agreed to visit them both the next day when she was back at home. She told me three days after the birth, to give you an idea of my clear role in her and the baby's life here. I saw her and hadn't even sat down when she stressed to me that I would only see the baby in her presence and that my family were never seeing him. I agreed initially as I wanted to see my newborn.

    I saw the baby a few times over the first 4-5 weeks, we would sit at her house in the evening, watch films, I'd make us food etc, but she would still bring up the past, never having moved on from this. She then became increasingly concerned about finances and saw me as a cash cow. Anyway, this is irrelevant, but it gives you an idea of my role here. We would have disagreements when I saw her, and I'd walked out a couple of times as it was draining me.

    I left her house one evening on bad terms and told her this is clearly not working and I can only see getting a court order as the way forward for me and the baby to see each other. She didn't believe me. I received a long ranting text from her, then two days following she phoned me as I hadn't replied, she was extremely emotional and yet again began screaming at me over the phone and accused me of raping her in my sleep for a third time. I repeated exactly what I'd said before and that I am putting the phone down.

    I have my two children from my ex wife on set days as I have a court order in place there, so I'd planned for them to see their new sibling in a few days, but my ex partner during this emotional call told me that we were not to come to her house, so I agreed. A few days later she texted asking if I am wanting to see the baby, I said I did, but not in her presence as all we are doing in arguing and it isn't healthy for the baby, me or her. She told me I am not seeing the baby without her being present and that she would arrange for a third party to be present during my visit.

    At this point I'd already made my mind up to follow through with court proceedings to see my newborn, and based on her allegations, I'd decided to stay well away from her moving forward as I am opening myself up to anything. I explained to her that a third party she arranges isn't independent, it will be a family member of friend of hers and I am not comfortable with that as I am leaving myself open to any potential allegations.

    She replied stating that there is no other option and that I am simply not seeing the newborn without her being in the house, it is as simple as that. She also said in her message she isn't sure what allegations I am referring to, which speaks volumes. I didn't respond and did the court application. Some time after, I received a date to attend a first hearing in court to see the baby.

    Four weeks out from the first hearing I received a knock at the door from CID explaining there had been a complaint made against me from my ex partner and offered me a voluntary interview, to which I agreed.

    For legal reasons I wont go into full details, but her accusations are slightly different to that in which she verbally accused me of during her emotional rants. She also accused me of sexual assault on three occasions, one of which was in front of my eldest child when we went away for the night with them.

    Six months on and I am no further on. It is with CPS now I am told.

    To add more to the story, I had my two children from my ex wife as part of a court order which I implemented. I will cut this VERY short, but my ex wife has never got over me leaving her 5 years ago. She is extremely irrational and is never easy to work with, constantly finds fault in anything and everything I do. She is extremely pedantic over words in the court order and doesn't act like an adult.

    Throughout the police investigation I have had the same access to my two children as normal, via the court order. My ex wife has moaned on occasion, but in general it has worked fine. A few weeks ago I was miles away in a meeting with my job and had asked a member of my family to collect my two children from school as I was never going to be back in time. The school where my youngest goes to had phoned my ex wife telling them that I wouldn't be collecting my child and that a family member (who my child spends a huge amount of time with) would be collecting the child instead. My ex wife texted me going crazy, saying I was breaching the court order again and that this is unacceptable and that I should stop having them on a weekday as 'clearly I cannot stick to it'. I have had this for two years, she basically wants more child maintenance from me as her payment has gone down since my newborn came along.

    Cutting it short, my ex wife told me to stay away and that she will be collecting the children from school, which she did. The following day I received a call from my employers informing me I had been dismissed, without a reason given. In my contract it states they can let you go with under two years service, with only a weeks notice.

    I cancelled child maintenance payments the following day with not earning and notified the CSA.

    The next week I turned up at my eldest child's school to pick them up and they did not come out. The receptionist confirmed my ex wife had collected them early. I phoned my other child's school to see if the same thing had happened there, and they confirmed it had. So my ex wife is now breaching the court order. My younger child's school asked me to call the Head the following day and she will explain things in more detail. I did, and the Head was very wishy washy, wasn't giving me the full details, but said social services had been in touch and told the school I am breaching the court order by not collecting my child as it states 'the father shall collect the children from school'. I found it odd that it would get to the level of social services, especially as I hadn't heard anything from them in 5 and a half months since the police investigation took place. I took it upon myself to contact social services, and after many calls chasing them up I finally received a call back from a case worker.

    She confirmed a PVP had been received by the police only recently which confirmed my allegations and the one linked to one of my children seeing an assault. To safeguard the children, I am not to see the children, my ex wife had decided this and she had been made aware of the allegations against me.

    I am disgusted it has taken nearly 6 months for the police to share this information with social services, as if I was this threat to society, and children, I have had a very long time to put them in very compromising and dangerous situations, introducing them to anyone or anything. Apparently the Police made an error with the addresses of the children and it had gone to another local council or something. Either way, it is abysmal.

    I received a letter from the CSA a week later asking me to prove I was having my children connected to my wife shared care. I phoned them and confirmed nothing had changed officially, there is a court order in place which they know, and that I am having personal issues at the moment so during the interim I will not be seeing them. My ex wife had decided to play the role of judge and take it upon herself to decide I wasn't having the children anymore, obviously wanting more money.

    My ex wife, and ex partner would receive their CSA payment at the beginning of each month, so that obviously didn't happen this month with me not working. This would have rattled her as she saw me having the children on a pay as you go service. If I pay CSA, I get them. If I don't, well, I don't see them.

    Social services went to her house before seeing me to interview her, her partner (who also hates me), and my two children. I had alarm bells ringing as she had two weeks to build a fake story before the social worker was coming to see her, and also manipulate my two children to lie. I did make this known to the social worker.

    I had my interview the day after my ex wife's, and it was fine, fairly relaxed and I was honest with her about everything. It is worth saying that the relationship I have with my two children is superb; the confide in me, talk open and honest to me and we are like best friends. My ex wife knows this and is jealous of this. My eldest only last year asked to live with me, which shows how miserable he is with her and her partner. .

    Last night I received a call from my solicitor saying my ex wife has raised an allegation of rape towards me. I feel broken. The writing was on the wall and I knew she was capable of this. Due to the social worker telling her about the rape allegation against me from my ex partner, she has jumped on the bang wagon in an attempt to frame me and ruin my life so I cannot see my children. She wants revenge, just like my ex. She is bitter, miserable, resentful and hostile towards me.

    So, not only I am under investigation for my ex partner for rape and sexual assault on numerous counts, I have lost my job due to under performing in my role, which has consequently made me lose my house as I cannot afford to run it alone. I cannot see my children (any of them), and now my ex wife is accusing me on rape too.
    I have my police interview on Monday regarding my ex wife's claims. It has to be historic as we have been apart 5 years and she has been in a relationship for 2 years with her current partner.

  • #2
    Hello and welcome to the forum,

    You have detailed the background very well to the two false accusations made against you which is really useful in establishing a motive and therefore in creating a defence should this prove necessary but it might be helpful if I summarized your current situation in order for forum members to offer support (but please correct me if I've misunderstood anything)

    Your ex-partner has made at least one allegation of rape relating to one of the meetings you had with her subsequent to the breakup of your relationship. You have already attended a voluntary interview regarding this six months ago and this case has not yet been disposed of.

    Your ex-wife has just made an allegation of rape against you and you are to attend an interview (also presumably voluntary?) on Monday regarding this allegation.

    [I guess that as your solicitor notified you about this that he will be attending as well and will advise you on how to respond to questioning but my immediate thought is why she has waited 5 years to make the accusation]

    Sorry to read of the collateral damage from these accusations in losing your job and then not being able to see your children, but custody issues are often at the bottom of these allegations!
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi, thanks for your reply.

      Ex partner has made three false allegations of rape and three false allegations of sexual assault, all historical, in 2015 she is saying. The investigation has been on going for 6 months.

      My ex wife whom I split with 5 years ago has now jumped on the bandwagon after social services have disclosed the allegations against me, as one of the sexual assault allegations involves my eldest child seeing it, which is obviously complete lies.

      I have the interview on Monday, voluntary again. It has to be historical as she has been with her current partner for two years now and is ready to give birth.

      I am shocked social services are allowed to give full disclosure even on the allegation that doesn't include the child (rape). In my opinion they should tell someone there has been an allegation made against me involving one of the children, but not mention rape, as this gives revenge seeking ex's a free pass to jump on board and falsely accuse to end someone's life, which is exactly what she is doing.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm after some advice before my interview on Monday please.

        This will be a historic allegation, and there will be no evidence presented to me, I can absolutely be assured of that.

        However, is it worth me sending over any evidence I have after the interview depending what I have around the time she has made the allegation?

        For the allegations with my ex partner (ex wife is on Monday), I sent a load of evidence to counter her allegations. Text messages, emails etc. I'm reading I shouldn't of, but I obviously am desperate to defend myself and prove my innocence?

        Anyway, it is too late to retrace steps now with the ex partner investigaton - the CPS should have all I have provided.

        Just wanted to see about my ex wife interview on Monday. I am tempted to not even try to prove my innocence as it is absolutely hideous and very transparent why she is making up these allegations. Let her prove me guilty, but it will never happen.

        Comment


        • #5
          Very best wishes that your interview tomorrow goes well, will your solicitor be attending? It is quite in order to pause the interview for a private chat with him if you feel this is necessary due to the line of questioning.

          Whether to disclose possible defence evidence is always a moot point as it is obviously desirable to avoid the challenge of a charge and trial even it it is likely that this will go your way, but I suppose the answer is that 'it depends'!

          For instance if the allegation was for a specific date and place and you had inconvertible proof that you were elsewhere, the police would be duty-bound to re-interview the complainant about this discrepancy. She/he *may* then realise that they had made a *mistake* regarding the date due to the passage of time/resultant stress and it actually occurred at another time. The defendant may then wish he had *remembered* about this alibi at a much later time, such as during the actual trial!

          Of course when an allegation emanates from within a relationship it is more likely that any evidence will be of the 'she said/he said' type rather than hard such as CCTV or DNA so that defence evidence will be more character-based. If you can show that the complainant will not make a good witness for whatever reason (i.e. habitual liar/previous criminality/previous allegations) then the CPS *should* take this into account when deciding if to charge or not.

          At the end of the day the decision must be yours as there will be nothing worse, should it all go horribly wrong, than having to ponder 'if only I had done this or that'
          'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Casehardened View Post
            Very best wishes that your interview tomorrow goes well, will your solicitor be attending? It is quite in order to pause the interview for a private chat with him if you feel this is necessary due to the line of questioning.

            Whether to disclose possible defence evidence is always a moot point as it is obviously desirable to avoid the challenge of a charge and trial even it it is likely that this will go your way, but I suppose the answer is that 'it depends'!

            For instance if the allegation was for a specific date and place and you had inconvertible proof that you were elsewhere, the police would be duty-bound to re-interview the complainant about this discrepancy. She/he *may* then realise that they had made a *mistake* regarding the date due to the passage of time/resultant stress and it actually occurred at another time. The defendant may then wish he had *remembered* about this alibi at a much later time, such as during the actual trial!

            Of course when an allegation emanates from within a relationship it is more likely that any evidence will be of the 'she said/he said' type rather than hard such as CCTV or DNA so that defence evidence will be more character-based. If you can show that the complainant will not make a good witness for whatever reason (i.e. habitual liar/previous criminality/previous allegations) then the CPS *should* take this into account when deciding if to charge or not.

            At the end of the day the decision must be yours as there will be nothing worse, should it all go horribly wrong, than having to ponder 'if only I had done this or that'
            Yes, my solicitor will be there - he was the person who phoned me reporting my ex wife's allegation. I did not get a knock at the door, just a phone call from my solicitor as the same DC will be doing the interview who was in charge of my ex partners allegation. Seem to be keeping it to the same DC.

            I guess I will find out what fabricated year and date she is alleging this happened come tomorrow. I do hope it isn't the same nature as my ex partners, as I seriously wouldn't put it past her finding my ex on social media and conjuring up a plan, but who knows.

            There will be zero evidence; there can't be, as it didn't happen. It will the exact same as my other case - her word against mine, no hard evidence.

            Am I right in saying the DC should legally present any exhibits/evidence during the interview if they have any? My friend who is a police officer says they are legally obliged to and can get in serious trouble if they don't.

            Comment


            • #7
              For God's sake do NOT hand over evidence without first discussing it very carefully with the solicitor.

              Some police officers "lose" evidence /deny they were ever given it - and sometimes they will go back to the complainant who will change his/her story to fit in with it.
              People Appealing Convictions of Sexual Offences ~http://www.pacso.co.uk

              PAFAA details ~ https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-people-aga...ions-of-abuse/

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, never give any evidence directly to the police without consulting your solicitor.

                Make sure you have a good talk with your solicitor before the interview, don't be in a rush to get out of there, as tempting as it may be.

                You do have the option of preparing a written statement based on the police disclosure and answering "no comment" to any questions or providing a prepared statement and answering questions depending on your solicitors advice.

                Make sure you think about your answers and keep them short and to the point.

                Good luck for tomorrow.
                For reliable legal aided advice in the London or home counties area, contact Harvey Fox of Freemans Solicitors, London. ( Private clients nationwide) :
                https://freemanssolicitors.net/team_members/harvey-fox/


                To join secure closed forums for those falsely accused of historical sex offences visit https://pafaaorg.wordpress.com/


                For help and advice with appealing convictions visit https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-pacso-forums/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you for the well wishes - I will update in this log after it.

                  I have prepared my notes to take in with me to refer to.

                  Bizarrely enough, I feel much more confident going in for this one tomorrow, as obviously I know the procedure now.

                  Feel very "on it" and ready to fight my battle.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good luck for tomorrow we will be thinking about you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lazy lass View Post
                      Good luck for tomorrow we will be thinking about you
                      Thanks! Can feel I am unsettled within, but completely normal to be this way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Interview wasn't pleasant (never imagine they are). D.C. linked a few questions to existing case, attempting to make me stutter and flap, but it didn't work.

                        Won't go into accusations, but nothing specific (shock horror), no dates at all, but apparently I abused her all throughout our relationship (over 7 years)...

                        Solicitor advised I went hell for leather and really give it what for, to tarnish her character completely. Usual case of seeking revenge and her partner has a serious vendetta against me which I won't go into so he was waiting for any opportunity to try and shaft me.

                        D.C. waiting to hear off CPS if this new case will be tied to existing one or treated as separately. Just have to wait now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Happy New Year to all.

                          My mother had a call off the same retired bobby who came to get a statement off her in relation to my ex partners allegations (she told the Police she informed my mother of the allegations, which of course, is complete lies) in November, but in relation to my ex wife's allegations that I had the interview for a few weeks ago.

                          I'm assuming CPS are tagging this latest case along with the original one, hence the statement happening so fast.

                          It is actually positive in my opinion that it is happening this quickly as opposed to it being dragged out.

                          The statement off my mother is being done on Thursday, so I'm hoping a decision by CPS will be done a few weeks after (he hopes )

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Multiple cases

                            Hmm

                            The policeman lied about talking to you mother, what a surprise.

                            Anyway I have a question about multiple cases, as I now have two FA's. i would like to know if your are sure they can combine accusations from two FA's into one case. When the police arrested me for my second FA they actually took my phone with texts that shed more than enough reasonable doubt on my first case. They second case is only new.

                            I am not sure but I doubt that they can combine cases together as that would prevent a fair trial. I think they would have to do one and then the next, they wouldn't even be allowed to mention the first case in the second again to ensure a fair trial. Its the same principal of as not revealing someones previous convictions during a trial.

                            Anyway I am sure one of the legal experts on here can confirm that.

                            Pond31

                            If I seek revenge I am digging a whole grave yard.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pond31 View Post
                              Hmm

                              The policeman lied about talking to you mother, what a surprise.

                              Anyway I have a question about multiple cases, as I now have two FA's. i would like to know if your are sure they can combine accusations from two FA's into one case. When the police arrested me for my second FA they actually took my phone with texts that shed more than enough reasonable doubt on my first case. They second case is only new.

                              I am not sure but I doubt that they can combine cases together as that would prevent a fair trial. I think they would have to do one and then the next, they wouldn't even be allowed to mention the first case in the second again to ensure a fair trial. Its the same principal of as not revealing someones previous convictions during a trial.

                              Anyway I am sure one of the legal experts on here can confirm that.

                              Pond31

                              If I seek revenge I am digging a whole grave yard.

                              No, he didn't lie about speaking to my mother. I meant both FA's have said to the Police that they confided in my mother about their allegations, which is complete lies, obviously. They both do not have mothers of their own, nor any immediate family, so used my mother as they were both close to her during the relationship.

                              I am sure the Police ask if the FA's told anyone about the alleged assaults as it seems very strange both FA's are pointing the finger to my mother...

                              I am not sure about combined cases, but I guess it's a bit like all these celebrity accusations coming out the woodwork - everyone is jumping on the bandwagon.

                              The OIC was waiting to hear back off CPS as to whether it would be combined or treated as a separate case, but I am yet to hear. I imagine it may be combined, especially considering the call my mother had this morning from the retired officer asking to get a statement from her again. It seems very sudden compared to the first case, however, this latest case is so broad - it literally has no dates, times etc - it is just a broad accusation spanning over a long relationship...

                              Comment

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