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  • #31
    Originally posted by Pond31 View Post
    My case is still on going but just out of interest can you reject an NFA offer and force the CPS to take you to court so you can then be found "not guilty".

    No!.... Just no! NFA means many things.In any serious sexual case with a half credible complainant these days this is passed on to the CPS who will make a decision about the credibility and reliability of the evidence. The public interest test is always passed as I understand it . Then the CPS will make a decision on whether there is a realistic chance of conviction. I have heard that they like 60% or greater but theoretically it could be as low as 51%. I have never heard of a defendant asking to be taken to trial but the if the CPS have already decided there is not enough chance of winning, I can't see that they would waste their (our) money.

    Not guilty means just that. The final, highest standard of proof is in court before a jury who must be sure, beyond a reasonable doubt, before they can convict. That just means there was not enough evidence to convict you. There is no such thing as being found completely innocent unfortunately.

    I Know, it's rubbish.
    For reliable legal aided advice in the London or home counties area, contact Harvey Fox of Freemans Solicitors, London. ( Private clients nationwide) :
    https://freemanssolicitors.net/team_members/harvey-fox/


    To join secure closed forums for those falsely accused of historical sex offences visit https://pafaaorg.wordpress.com/


    For help and advice with appealing convictions visit https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-pacso-forums/

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    • #32
      There are certain differences in perspective between an NFA and a not guilty verdict. In reality both mean that you are innocent in the eyes of the law. In this country a person is innocent until proven guilty. This is something we all need to keep asserting.

      In terms of practical differences between NFA and not guilty verdict, the only thing the latter has over the NFA is a certain finality. The principle of double jeopardy has been eroded somewhat, but for most people it will still apply. A retrial can only be ordered if there is new and compelling evidence (probably enough to convict on its own) that wasn't available at the trial, or if there is evidence of interference with witnesses or the jury. That will not apply to most cases. An NFA can be resurrected by further similar allegations or by further evidence becoming available.

      I would far rather have been NFA'd. I'd rather not have faced trial - it was an ordeal I could have done without. NFA might have an element of it being unresolved, but a trial carries the possibility of a long prison sentence. I could have done without that fear for the six months between being charged and standing trial. I would not choose a trial over NFA.

      I understand that there is an element of the grass always being greener on the other side. In these situations it is far better to accept the positive outcome you have than to dwell on what might have been. In your case, the CPS clearly didn't think they could win their case, but that's no reason to push it to trial! Once it is in court, your chances are pretty much 50/50. Rape carries an absolute minimum of four years custody (and sex offenders register for life) and a maximum of life imprisonment. Is that a risk worth taking?
      "You are not obliged to say anything but it WILL harm your defence if you DO mention something that might help you in court. Anything you say will be put to the complainant so they can change their story."

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      • #33
        I think NFA should have a name change to "innocent no proof of crime". I feel the word innocent should be included somewhere so those outside the law can understand it. I do NOT know what is happening in my case yet and don't know if it will be NFA or court. It will not be over for me anyway as my professional body will start an investigation afterwards and it will drag on longer. It has already ruined my career guilty or not guilty.
        Last edited by Pond31; 21 January 2017, 12:47 PM.

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        • #34
          I agree withat sentiments about the word innocent or no crime being in what is now the NFA. The parliament select committee showed visible signs of irritation regarding the NFA wording and I think in time it will change and when does there would surley be a case to retrospectively apply this to NFA letters of the past. But it does need pressure to be applied if the process doesn't change as a result of government actions. I believe it is manifestly unfair to not be able to effectively clear your name in commonly understood terms. Do you mind saying which field you work in ie education or health etc in the broadest terms?

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          • #35
            I work in health. I am going to challenge some of my employers policies and procedures after this because I feel the breach my rights.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Pond31 View Post
              I work in health. I am going to challenge some of my employers policies and procedures after this because I feel the breach my rights.
              I have to disagree with terrifieddad slightly, for the first time ever.

              Both NFA and NG indeed leave you innocent in the eyes of the law, but neither of them prove that there wasn't evidence against you only that the evidence was not good enough to proceed to trial or not good enough for a jury to convict at the highest standard.

              NFA is certainly preferable to a trial. A trial means that the evidence against you was considered strong enough to convict.

              As a side note, I do wonder about conviction rates in FA and historical trials and would like to know if they are lower than the national average. That average means that a guilty rapist has the same chance in court as someone that is FA and I just don't like to think that's right. Not all liars are convincing actresses and that has to go in favour of the defendant. I would say that is generally borne out from the verdicts I see in the groups.

              I agree that there should be some better mechanism to clear records but it's a tricky area of the law. The only 2 scenarios I can think of that would leave you 100% innocent are if the liar refuses to make a statement or is caught or confesses to lying and is prosecuted for PCJ./ WPT.
              For reliable legal aided advice in the London or home counties area, contact Harvey Fox of Freemans Solicitors, London. ( Private clients nationwide) :
              https://freemanssolicitors.net/team_members/harvey-fox/


              To join secure closed forums for those falsely accused of historical sex offences visit https://pafaaorg.wordpress.com/


              For help and advice with appealing convictions visit https://pacso.co.uk/pafaa-pacso-forums/

              Comment


              • #37
                can I record the police interview myself

                I have to attend the police station on Tuesday at which time I will get details of my FA said. I will then have time to discuss the matter with my solicitor and then answer any questions the police want me too. I was wondering if I can bring my own Dictaphone to record the interview for my own records, as this will give my a chance to study my responses. I am wondering is there any legal issue with my request or will it make me look cocky or paranoid. I do feel it may piss off the OIC.

                I have to confess that I will need to have someone with me after the interview in-order to help keep me safe.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Why on earth would you want to do that to yourself? There are advantages and disadvantages to both NFA and a trial, but you cannot guarantee the verdict. Just, no!

                  Unfortunately we don't have a 'no crime' conclusion in this country, but NFA is the nearest you will get to it. You are innocent in the eyes of the law, with both NFA and not guilty, but there will always be those who say that there just wasn't enough evidence to convict. With NFA there was not even enough evidence to take the matter to trial.

                  Don't ask them to say that there was, or give a jury to bring in the wrong verdict.

                  Edited to add - the police won't let you record your interview in addition to their own recording. Having a solicitor with you is your opportunity to have extra ears. Agonising over your answers and responses won't help you in the long run anyway.
                  Last edited by Franticwithworry; 22 January 2017, 11:50 AM.
                  'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Ok I know I keep on asking questions but I contacted my solicitor about this last Thursday and she has yet to get back to me. I also Googled it but did not find the answer. I know police can lie to you and say up is down and down is up during an interview but can they lie to you solicitor if they asked them a question? I want to ask a question prior to the start of my interview as it will effect how I approach my answers.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I doubt the police will give you any answers at all.
                      Speak to your solicitor before you say anything.
                      Keep your answers brief and honest.
                      Don't volunteer extra information or try and second guess where they're going with the questions.
                      If the question can be answered with an honest yes or no then keep it to that one word.
                      Be guided by the solicitor.
                      Tell the truth and you'll get through it.
                      Hang in there!
                      YoH

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                      • #41
                        I will ask the question and watch their faces. I have a plan to help with yes and no answers. I am bring drink with me to sip between every question.

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                        • #42
                          I am not sure I can trust the police or anyone. If I can confirm my answers will remain confidential until any court date then I would be OK but I know the OIC has speaking to my employer.

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                          • #43
                            I don't trust them as far as I could throw them, and one of my very good friends is a police officer!!!
                            I don't trust him when he's got his uniform on.
                            Once he's in work mode it's all about the figures and promotions!!
                            Lovely man otherwise!
                            YoH

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                            • #44
                              I took everyone's advice and was open and honest when interviewed today. One thing was clear the police officers only asked me about things that they thought made me look guilty rather than asking questions which where balanced and objective. It was interesting to get to see what my FA said. Nothing that surprising but one time I wanted to say "that is ********" but I paused and said "that is bunkum" but they all knew what I meant.

                              The funny thing now as the investigation process is over reference me and the file is being sent to the CPS, I am no longer on bail and there are no longer any bail conditions. This means I can go with 0.25 of FA's address, move house if and I want to and if I bumped into her in the street I can speak to her if I wish. The things is I cannot understand the logic of this at all. I don't understand why they don't keep the bail conditions on while the CPS is deliberating. I actually they did as it gave me a clear boundary.

                              Anyway my solicitor feels that the interview went well and that it will indeed come across go at trial. btw I did pull the police up about things and said hang on a minute.

                              Well can anyone lend me £2000 for a holiday in Tenerife?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'm glad everything went as well for you as it could at the interview.

                                There doesn't seem to be any logic to bail conditions. I think, with the new law coming in the police are nervous of keeping people on bail for too long.

                                Hang in there! You're getting through this slowly. Sorry I can't stump up for a holiday, though.
                                'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

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