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  • A Policeman's view on rape allegations

    A recurrent theme that runs through member’s posts is anger at the actions of the police force in arresting, processing, and interviewing them for what eventually turns out to be a false accusation.

    Now to hardened criminals this is an occupational hazard and nothing at all to be feared, but this may be the first time we have come into more than fleeting contact with the police and so the procedure is extremely stressful. Couple this with the injustice of the false accusation and the whole episode will be a experience which can never be forgotten.

    If the case gets to trial and beyond then the arrest becomes less significant in the greater picture and there is less anger directed at the police as realisation dawns that they are just part of the monolithic justice system, but if the case is NFA’d then the actions of the police investigating team are the be-all and end-all and any anger is directed at them rather than the rightful target of the false accuser.

    Consider the police force as the paramedics of the justice system who are in the front line and dealing with all sorts of criminality; this job will pre-dispose them to considering that all who need their services are guilty of the offence they appear to have committed in the same way as NHS paramedics assume all their calls are to an injured person.

    In fact more than a few 999 calls are hoaxes, whichever emergency service they are directed to, and it is useful to consider FA’s in this manner; however the police must make an initial response which is what they are tasked to do. The CPS will do any triaging that may be necessary and the judge will, if required, organise the admittance into the institution for as many nights as he considers necessary.

    The police have to implement the laws which are passed by parliament whether they personally agree with them or not and it is helpful to remember that the legislators are elected by, and accountable to, the voters and therefore the general public, though it may well often appear that politicians follow their own agenda regardless. Nevertheless if the populace is fairly united over any particular issue then the government has to fall into line and unfortunately the whole range of sexual offending falls squarely into this field as instanced by the various online comments made whenever a particular case is featured in the news and the police are only implementing the wishes of the majority in pursuing thorough investigations with the sole objective of proving the accused person guilty rather than ‘getting them off’ by proving their innocence.

    Just as an example, the offence of rape within a marriage has only comparatively recently been created. (and try canvassing opinions about this!) I can hardly imagine that the police force welcomed this development , however they were then obliged to investigate all the extra accusations brought by aggrieved and jilted partners and thereby incur the wrath of those falsely accused.

    At this point it will be useful to understand a serving policeman’s opinion and I will quote ‘Inspector Gadget’. He is a real person though I have no idea of his actual rank but he wrote a popular and long running blog which was highly critical of various government initiatives and targets which were not conducive to safe and effective policing. Perhaps because of this, it was decreed from above that serving officers would face dismissal if they continued to write such blogs. I imagine that ‘Inspector Gadget’s identity was fairly well known within the force and therefore he sensibly stopped blogging

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Inspector_Blog

    However nothing is ever lost on the web and I will reproduce one of his posts below together with the link where it is preserved:

    Rape Hokum Out of every ten rapes which are reported in Ruraltown, at least eight turn out to be nonsense. Inspector Gadget - A UK POLICE OFFICER ...

    As a serving policeman, there are several things I am not allowed to talk about.

    There are plenty of operational secrets we cannot discuss, but I’m not referring to those. I’m talking about the taboo subjects. The ‘detection’ rate for rape is one of these.

    It’s very frustrating to sit and listen to pundits talking about the low number of rape convictions in Court, when as police officers we all know what lies behind these poor numbers.

    For example, I couldn’t possibly tell you that out of every ten rapes which are reported in Ruraltown, at least eight turn out to be nonsense. To be fair, eight out of ten of everything reported at Ruraltown police station is nonsense, why should rape be any different?

    I couldn’t tell you that of the remaining two, an existing alcohol-fuelled chaotic drug-based relationship is a factor in at least one of these, and ‘consent’ is probably present in the other to some degree. In my whole service I can only recall three stranger rapes and a half a dozen where consent was withdrawn at the time and he carried on. But I can’t tell you that.

    I can’t tell you that most of the adult rapes reported in Ruraltown represent either the latest in a series of allegations designed to score points against an ‘ex, lies designed to fend off an angry parent when a curfew has been missed or a defence mechanism when a jilted ‘partner’ discovers an infidelity.

    A rape once reported, even if withdrawn later, is in the system and a failure to bring someone to justice, even if it never happened, shows up in the ‘detection’ rate. The ‘detection rate’ is low because the number of rapes which actually happen is low. I couldn’t possibly say that though.
    So who suffers when Charlene drops by the nick to accuse Wayne of raping her because she is hacked off that he used her child benefit money for drugs? Who suffers when we deploy a full investigation team, send officers out to arrest Wayne and deploy CSI’s and specialist rape officers to the victim suite, all for Charlene to suddenly decide that she loves him and he didn’t do it after all? Who loses when she can’t identify a scene (because there never was a scene) when we can see on CCTV that Wayne was in the High Street (on his own) at the material time and that her mobile phone records show that she was texting her mate who works at Tesco, right at the time she was supposed to be being brutally taken by the boy?

    The next genuine rape victim to walk into the police station, that’s who. The next genuine victim who may face the cynical looks and delayed reaction from officers who have just finished dealing with the last ten Charlenes.

    I also shouldn’t tell you that it is Force Policy, in all but the most exceptional cases, not to prosecute Charlene for wasting police time. Apparently this would prevent genuine victims from coming forward. Make no mistake, the genuine victims suffer, the detection rate is low and we keep pretending that everything is alright.

    The facts about rape seen from the street are this: most genuine rapes are against children under 13 years old and are within the family or family circle. Genuine adult rape is rare and nearly always charged to Court; what a jury do next is for them, but it usually comes down to ‘consent’ issues, and being as they were not in the bedroom at the time, and we are not simply proving intercourse because that is already admitted by the defendant, it’s not really within our gift to prove or disprove consent. Consent can amount to one word, said in a half whisper six months before in a darkened room where no one else was present.

    But we can’t possibly say any of this. We will simply accept that it’s all our fault and promise to do better in the future.

    http://www.angryharry.com/esOneThirdOfMenAreRapist
    Last edited by Casehardened; 26 November 2016, 06:12 PM.
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

  • #2
    Thank you for this. It's useful and interesting.
    'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

    Comment


    • #3
      Sorry casehardened but I am not sure I can let this go without comment.

      It is a case often made in defence of the Police but really not one I feel cannot really stand up to scrutiny.

      Whilst it is interesting to look at the Police as the "paramedics" of the criminal justice system conducting themselves in essence in accordance with the will of the people, on closer examination that is actually wrong on three counts.

      Firstly most people, who had not been through this process would take it for read that the Police would make some initial inquiries to satisfy themselves that there was some kind of reasonable case to answer. In this they spectacularly fail. I do not think it is unreasonable for people to complain in instances where the allegations made against them are OBVIOUSLY nonsense. A relevant example here are teachers / youth workers who are increasingly pressurized to notify the police if they have ANY suspicions but to say the least feel "duped" once they realize that the Police do not conduct an impartial investigation.

      Secondly, the police readily impose bail, often with onerous conditions in effect those conditions act as a PUNISHMENT, so the police are not just acting as paramedics but indeed as surgeons (courts). The public would I daresay think this somewhat out of order.

      Thirdly, the police are happy for their "investigations" to take up to two years -no figures are available but from what I can make of it at least 6 months is the norm - but refuse to accept that allegations of this nature are intrinsically damaging to the accused. I am accepting that the public take a dim view of for example rape however, the public do also take a dim view of "Health Tourism" and there is increasing support to for example check peoples passports before they are treated in an NHS hospital. Using your analogy again it would seem to be the case that since we are suspected "health tourists" it is Ok for the police to take 6 months to drive us to the hospital.

      Lets look at some figures. Lets say that on average it takes 6 months for people accused of rape to be NFA'd or committed for trial (in and of itself another 6-9 month wait). Lets also say that 50% of the people accused of rape are subject to onerous bail conditions. Lastly lets assume that all those convicted of rape were given (a generous) 10 years.

      Lets extrapolate those numbers for 2011-12

      Of 18826 complaints of rape there were approx - 1581 convictions - so on aggregate they were sentenced to 15,810 Years having been through the full Criminal Justice System.

      There were also 17245 non convictions, who were sentenced to 8,622 years of "The Sword of Damocles Hanging over their head"

      In addition half of those people i.e 8622 were additionally sentenced to Onerous restrictions on their liberty for 4,311 years.

      In addition we know for a fact that many people accused of rape will indeed kill themselves - lets say this figure is very low - say .1% thats 17 people.

      So to recap

      Full Judicial System (Guilty) - Sentence - 15,810 Years
      Police Only - Sentence 12,933 years and 17 Death sentences

      Whilst I would agree that the Police would say "they are just doing their job" which is the will of the people ultimately, actually they are acting as judge, jury and executioner pre-trail, and as such are not acting responsibly.

      Relevantly the 1581 guilty who are sentenced to 15810 years, are (at least in theory) given help and support to reintroduce them to society. The 17245 less the 17 dead ones = 17228 not-guilty who did 12,933 years got no support.

      What is interesting about your analogy is that the "paramedic" analogy does fit well with the criminal justice system in other jurisdictions.

      The police have traditionally been allowed to "police by consent", but due to a number of factors (killing people for no reason (including with obvious fit ups), briefing against people who might damage their reputation, the increasingly large role played in tax collection (speed cameras etc), ridiculously over aggressive policing of demonstrations, and constant scandals about cover ups of wrongdoing (Hillsborough)) the concept of policing by consent is becoming increasingly outmoded. The Police have systematically attacked their own middle class, largely law-abiding power base and their present reputation reflects this.

      Perhaps it is time to strip away large swathes of Police power and reseat that power with an investigating judge. I for one would rather be getting a diagnosis from a triage/emergency room doctor, than a paramedic.

      Comment


      • #4
        An interesting rebuttal, experience3.
        'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by experience3 View Post

          Perhaps it is time to strip away large swathes of Police power and reseat that power with an investigating judge. I for one would rather be getting a diagnosis from a triage/emergency room doctor, than a paramedic.
          This is an interesting suggestion and I believe this happens on the other side of the channel (though fortunately I've not had personal experience!) however from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate

          However we run into the same issue as with any reforms suggested on the forum; how do you get Parliament to implement changes? Petitions have been tried but there are never enough signatures to be effective; lone MP's have raised the issue in the House but are eventually silenced by the 'liberal' majority.

          I had hope that the vast and increasing cost of policing and prosecuting FA's would result in some 'rowing back' but this doesn't seem to be an issue; I suppose it is submerged in the huge overall costs of the justice system.
          'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

          Comment


          • #6
            This is a very interesting thread and I agree with a lot of your points casehardend.

            However the bulk of my anger is directed at the police rather than at my daughter who was the FA. I fed the OIC a lot of information while my son was on bail. If they had been investigating looking at all the facts and if our case had been under continuous review as it should have been I believe there is no way it could have passed the 51% threshold. Unanimous not guilty in 1 hour! Neither prosecution witnesses gave evidence because they didn't believe daughter. A history of allegations made by daughter that professionals previously accepted as lies and which daughter retracted. I truly believe that daughter has some sort of disorder

            If my daughter had been helped to explore why she was making allegations rather than being automatically believed maybe the process which continues with its own momentum could have been stalled. The police have effectively destroyed our family because of their stupidity and gullibility.

            Whilst we will be forever grateful to the jury who saw the truth my son was stood in the dock hearing that they were ready for him in the cells beneath. That is complete and utter trauma because innocent people are foung guilty. It was hell for him, it was hell for me being powerless to protect him.

            Although it means he has been found not guilty the person who was guilty has not faced any legal consequences. The police will no doubt just keep on putting many real victims ( those who are falsely accused ) through hell because it is politically incorrect to even countenance that someone would lie about rape. I can fully understand how innocent people end their lives because of being falsely accused. People may decide they have taken the cowards way out by not hanging around for justice.

            I've been through some tough stuff in my life but this has been the worst thing ever.

            Comment


            • #7
              I was so wound up experience 3 that I didn't read all your post. Now I have I completely agree with you

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Casehardened View Post
                This is an interesting suggestion and I believe this happens on the other side of the channel (though fortunately I've not had personal experience!) however from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Examining_magistrate

                However we run into the same issue as with any reforms suggested on the forum; how do you get Parliament to implement changes? Petitions have been tried but there are never enough signatures to be effective; lone MP's have raised the issue in the House but are eventually silenced by the 'liberal' majority.

                I had hope that the vast and increasing cost of policing and prosecuting FA's would result in some 'rowing back' but this doesn't seem to be an issue; I suppose it is submerged in the huge overall costs of the justice system.
                Casehardened I think that is right, but actually the first order of business is to raise awareness.

                The new snoopers charter being a case in point, "the people" have let this legislation go through largely unchallenged, and seating an enormous amount of extra power with the police. The rationale behind this is "I have nothing to hide".

                I point out to people that i have been using the internet and sending and receiving email for 25 years. I you have all of that data and enough time and you are selective enough you can in point of fact go most of the way to proving anything you like about me, be that a rapist or the second coming of jesus. Once I tell them my experiences they are not so keen on the idea.

                The question they then ask is - what do we do about terrorists? To which I reply - I dont know but since terrorists dont use open communication formats this isn't going to help! The real reason that the legislation was passed is that it legitimizes what the security services are already doing, unfortunately the legislation goes further and allows the police to do it. What we know about extra police powers is that once they have them - they cannot help but abuse them. Witness in the 1980s after city wide riots and a public enquiry the government had to restrict the Police from using "Stop Under Suspicion" powers because all the police ever did was stop a load of black kids in Brixton with a bit of puff leading to bad feeling and eventually riots. In the 2000's because of "terrorism" they had to have "Stop and Search" powers back. This lead to bad feeling apparently cause all they ever used these powers for was stopping a load of black kids in Brixton to catch them with a bit of puff!

                The way forward therefore is not to get a petition going but to convince all of your friends that when the authorities say they need more powers to "combat terrorism", what they mean is they just want more powers. What they will probably use them for is to nick you for putting the wrong trash in the wrong bin and raise a few quid

                Comment


                • #9
                  Regarding the 'omnipresence' of internet use, (I'm going off-topic now for which I will rebuke myself severely) I was searching for a very particular type of sink waste fitting yesterday.

                  The only one in the world that I could find was on an American website therefore obviously priced in dollars and with an extortionate shipping charge (twice the price of the item!) so I moved on and thought of various alternative solutions.

                  I was completely flabbergasted to then get this same fitting from the same supplier appearing in my Facebook feed a few hours later priced in sterling with free delivery and I still can't get my head around how this happened (and I did buy the item as a reward for their inguenity!)

                  The point is (back on topic) if a commercial concern(s) has the technical ability to do this for the sake of a £ or so profit then our PC's are a window onto the world, except that folks are looking in as well as us looking out
                  'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    FWIW & back to the OP...

                    I do hold the Police responsible for their actions. Believing & giving credibility to a story as yet unproven & un-investigated is not "without fear or favour". Hence no impartiality (being blunt it is partisan to a significant level). Look at mysogeny being reported as a hate crimr yet mysandry is not mentioned at all (Notts police). There is gender inequality for you straight away...

                    Impartial investigation is fine, but using terms of "offender" when no offence has been recorded, "Victim" when no crime has been recorded & yet labelling with the hope that "new evidence will emerge" for an indefinite period of time, suggests to me a lack of independence of thought. low rigour of intellect & a lazy approach to the progression of justice characterised by dunking a custard cream in a hot mug of tea.

                    There are varying strata of intellectual logic in the Police forces I have encountered. Even bright graduate level officers feel free to lie to fall in line with their colleagues. So what is the end result? Without impartiality the credibility of UK Police falls to a threshold level where the consent of the people to be self policed by the Force is erroneously bestowed on a Force no longer fit for purpose.

                    The Crown is responsible for this. The Crown should reform or fall.

                    The thin blue line is very thin & not so blue as you would believe. They just are a little bit better than Joe Public at co-ordination.

                    Mr B
                    Last edited by Mr B; 28 November 2016, 03:54 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think my husbands/myselves anger on the alleged offence has always been aimed at the accuser,
                      yes the police are just doing their job.

                      The only thing is that why did the police "arrest" my husband over a "30 year ago supposed historical offence"? Considering he has no other convictions. This has been so embarrassing because the whole neighbourhood must have seen him,fortunately they did not need to place hand cuffs as he did not resist, so I guess the neighbours can draw their own conclusions!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Very good thread. I cannot add anything to supplement what has already been posted. All good stuff.

                        But can I just say after more than two years after my partners NG - I am still outraged by the conduct of police and CPS. I am eager to understand their behaviour and put an end to the torment of why they allowed our case and that of many others to reach the stage that it did.

                        Carrot tops - I feel your suffering and I agree with you - the bulk of my sadness is aimed at the police. I feel we were persecuted in exchange for their focus on targets. Don't know how they can sleep at night.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Silver View Post
                          I think my husbands/myselves anger on the alleged offence has always been aimed at the accuser,
                          yes the police are just doing their job.

                          The only thing is that why did the police "arrest" my husband over a "30 year ago supposed historical offence"? Considering he has no other convictions. This has been so embarrassing because the whole neighbourhood must have seen him,fortunately they did not need to place hand cuffs as he did not resist, so I guess the neighbours can draw their own conclusions!
                          My man didn't have a criminal history or resist either but they put him in handcuffs regardless. They also arrested him in connection with allegations 40 decades old. It makes no sense. All I can say is that they were much more polite than some people's experience so i suppose we have to be grateful for small mercies.

                          The police have a job to do it's true, but an application of common sense wouldn't come amiss even when they have targets to meet.
                          'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Franticwithworry View Post
                            My man didn't have a criminal history or resist either but they put him in handcuffs regardless. They also arrested him in connection with allegations 40 decades old. It makes no sense. All I can say is that they were much more polite than some people's experience so i suppose we have to be grateful for small mercies.

                            The police have a job to do it's true, but an application of common sense wouldn't come amiss even when they have targets to meet.
                            Its such a traumatic experience also he was arrested in front of my 15 year old son, so sad for him to witness.
                            Apparently the interview only lasted 15minutes,(not really enough time to gain so called evidence or assement of personality traits etc) the solicitor said my husband gave a concise report of where he was at the time alleged offences were supposed to have happened.in that he had lost contact with them.
                            We are only at beginning of process, he now has to return from bail in March, hopefully we will have some idea as to what might happen.

                            As you mention yes commonsense,i.e for a recent crime, yes arrest fine, but to do this when someone has had no previous convictions, and it was over so many years. Unless they want to evoke flight or fright syndrome, however then they kept him in the cell for 4hours before questioning so I suppose it cant be that.
                            I did read on another site that everything is victim led, so even the decision to arrest was up to the victim

                            Must remember your user name, would be nice to speak further when I can PM please.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Silver View Post
                              Its such a traumatic experience also he was arrested in front of my 15 year old son, so sad for him to witness.
                              Apparently the interview only lasted 15minutes,(not really enough time to gain so called evidence or assement of personality traits etc) the solicitor said my husband gave a concise report of where he was at the time alleged offences were supposed to have happened.in that he had lost contact with them.
                              We are only at beginning of process, he now has to return from bail in March, hopefully we will have some idea as to what might happen.

                              As you mention yes commonsense,i.e for a recent crime, yes arrest fine, but to do this when someone has had no previous convictions, and it was over so many years. Unless they want to evoke flight or fright syndrome, however then they kept him in the cell for 4hours before questioning so I suppose it cant be that.
                              I did read on another site that everything is victim led, so even the decision to arrest was up to the victim

                              Must remember your user name, would be nice to speak further when I can PM please.
                              Just look in your own details for your own posts and you'll find threads with me and you in them to jog your memory. I'll look out for the opportunity to send a PM to you too.

                              I didn't realise that victims have say in whether or not someone is arrested, but it explains a lot.
                              'Mongolian Warriors had the courage of lions, the patience of hounds, the prudence of cranes, the long-sightedness of ravens, the wildness of wolves, the passion of fightingcocks, the keenness of cats, the fury of wild boars and the cunning of foxes.' BE A MONGOLIAN WARRIOR WHEN DEFENDING YOUR INNOCENCE!

                              Comment

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