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**Don'tKnowWhatToDo** · 20 January 2016, 04:27 PM

I'm sorry if it doesn't make much sense, my mind is elsewhere

**Rights Fighter** · 20 January 2016, 04:41 PM

Ask to for an appointment to see your MP and explain this to him / her. Ask them if they can contact the Chief Constable in your area to ask that the allegation is not on your DBS check.

**Casehardened** · 20 January 2016, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by Don'tKnowWhatToDo View Post

I was happy that the ordeal was over, but now days later (a few days ago) two of my cousins (one of them is the closest family I've got, more like a brother) has been told I'm not to be around his kids unsupervised, which doesn't actually affect me as I have no reason to see them unsupervised, and the same for my other cousin.

Hi,
Presumably this is one of the points that concern you? If so it is a question of who 'told' them...if it wasn't an official instruction i.e. from SS and they have just taken the niece's side there is not much you can to about this: unfortunately these sort of allegations can and do split families.

Edit to add that possibly SS may have told your cousins this whilst the investigation was ongoing if niece was a minor at the time of the alleged incidents (but of course now you are NFA'd this should no longer apply (italics as SS are a law unto themselves)

**Jerome Goulding** · 20 January 2016, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Rights Fighter View Post

Ask to for an appointment to see your MP and explain this to him / her. Ask them if they can contact the Chief Constable in your area to ask that the allegation is not on your DBS check.

As sure as eggs are eggs, if you have been arrested, detained and your DNA, finger prints, photo were taken, it is now on the Police National Computer.

My understanding is that there are three types of DBS (Disclosure & Barring Service) checks:

A 'standard' disclosure checks for spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings and information logged onto the Police National Computer Database (PNC)

An 'Enhanced' disclosure will be a cross checking of the Police National Computer Database (PNC) and any localised information kept on each forces computers. It includes the same as the 'standard' check plus any additional information held by local police that’s reasonably considered relevant to the role being applied for. Allegations of being associated with crime, allegations about any criminal intent, spent convictions, arrests, detainments and interviews (with or without a caution) and suspicions can be revealed to those legitimately requesting information.

An 'Enhanced with list checks' is all involved with enhanced checks and the DBS barred lists. Jobs that involve carrying out certain activities for children and adults may require an 'enhanced DBS check with a check of the barred lists'. This will check whether someone’s included in the 2 DBS ‘barred lists’ of individuals who are unsuitable for working with children or adults. People on the barred lists can’t do certain types of work. There are specific rules for working with children - known as working in a regulated activity with children. These are different from the rules for regulated activities for adults.

If it is deemed you are 'innocent' (which is not a term the police ever use) you can appeal to the Chief Constable of the force who arrested you, to have your data removed. You might be interested to read my take on removal or information and DBS checks -http://www.false-arrest.co.uk/index.php?id=dbs-hiding-in-the-dark

**AmandaF** · 21 January 2016, 06:58 AM

I have to have an enhanced disclosure for my job- registered nurse working with vulnerable adults (dementia/ challenging behaviour).

When I applied for the post I have now, not only did the check have my charges on it, it also had my OH's. DBS have decided that even though I was acquitted, charges have to remain visible for 5 years. Thankfully, my now manager offered me the post anyway as my references/ professional reputation were/ are excellent. And I was honest about the situation at interview.

You are never ever truly seen as innocent

**Arsenal12** · 21 January 2016, 07:42 AM

Yes jobs that require Dbs (enhanced check etc)......can be confusing....and difficult.....to understand....

In my previous job....I was dbs enhanced checked.... Together with a counter terrorism check...as I worked for a government agency...involving... FNPS...foreign national prisoners.....

Which is why when I was falsely accused I was suspended..... And then sacked!....even though I have not been Charged.....

That's life....though....

Cruel.....

**Don'tKnowWhatToDo** · 21 January 2016, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by Jerome Goulding View Post

As sure as eggs are eggs, if you have been arrested, detained and your DNA, finger prints, photo were taken, it is now on the Police National Computer.

My understanding is that there are three types of DBS (Disclosure & Barring Service) checks:

A 'standard' disclosure checks for spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands and final warnings and information logged onto the Police National Computer Database (PNC)

An 'Enhanced' disclosure will be a cross checking of the Police National Computer Database (PNC) and any localised information kept on each forces computers. It includes the same as the 'standard' check plus any additional information held by local police that’s reasonably considered relevant to the role being applied for. Allegations of being associated with crime, allegations about any criminal intent, spent convictions, arrests, detainments and interviews (with or without a caution) and suspicions can be revealed to those legitimately requesting information.

An 'Enhanced with list checks' is all involved with enhanced checks and the DBS barred lists. Jobs that involve carrying out certain activities for children and adults may require an 'enhanced DBS check with a check of the barred lists'. This will check whether someone’s included in the 2 DBS ‘barred lists’ of individuals who are unsuitable for working with children or adults. People on the barred lists can’t do certain types of work. There are specific rules for working with children - known as working in a regulated activity with children. These are different from the rules for regulated activities for adults.

If it is deemed you are 'innocent' (which is not a term the police ever use) you can appeal to the Chief Constable of the force who arrested you, to have your data removed. You might be interested to read my take on removal or information and DBS checks -http://www.false-arrest.co.uk/index.php?id=dbs-hiding-in-the-dark

Thanks for you reply, and this is what bothers me.

Like most rape allegations, in the eyes of the law until a time when I can prove with absolute certainty that it is a lie, she gets to go about her life like nothing has happened, while I'm suffering the backlash.

On the other hand, she had no evidence that it happened (other than a baby, which obviously turned out not to be mine) so the only thing on her side at the moment is her statement.

Her statement included that it only ever happened in her mothers house, whilst her mother and stepdad were around - both of those have confirmed to the police that the only time I saw her, was when u went to see them and she just so happened to be there, which was a few times at most & during those times, they confirmed I was never alone with her (I've never been close with my niece, everything she does annoys me, she's just a *****)

So surely that, added to the fact that she has made false allegations in the past, in the very recent past, as well let as her own parents telling the police I've never been alone with her & the only bit of 'evidence' she having turning out to be complete bull****, that in this case I would be found innocent.

**slowdown73** · 21 January 2016, 09:55 AM

I feel for you as it's not nice being classed as a "risk" when you know you are completely innocent. Who told your closest family member that you are not allowed any unsupervised contact with children? If it was social services, then it might be worth asking your family member to contact them to explain the situation and say it was a false allegation and no charges have been brought.

**Rights Fighter** · 21 January 2016, 11:30 AM

I have known a few people have the allegations and all that followed removed from their ECRB - now DBS - check. Often this was after input from their respective MPs.

To regurgitate the old story about the aftermath of my "Mr Kaz Appeal" - Kaz applied to be a dinner lady. She found the allegations against her partner, the conviction and subsequent quashed conviction on HER ECRB/DBS check.

She asked the Chief Constable to intervene. He refused.

She was completely innocent as she was never accused of anything and they hadn't even met when the alleged abuse took place.

I suppose it could be said that as she supported him throughout, she was "groomed" by him and therefore a danger to children (regardless of the fact that his conviction was quashed).

From that, I learned that the decision is down to the Chief Constable (and who is "friends" are)

**Jerome Goulding** · 22 January 2016, 07:58 AM

Write to your MP

Originally posted by Rights Fighter View Post

I have known a few people have the allegations and all that followed removed from their ECRB - now DBS - check. Often this was after input from their respective MPs.

To regurgitate the old story about the aftermath of my "Mr Kaz Appeal" - Kaz applied to be a dinner lady. She found the allegations against her partner, the conviction and subsequent quashed conviction on HER ECRB/DBS check.

She asked the Chief Constable to intervene. He refused.

She was completely innocent as she was never accused of anything and they hadn't even met when the alleged abuse took place.

I suppose it could be said that as she supported him throughout, she was "groomed" by him and therefore a danger to children (regardless of the fact that his conviction was quashed).

From that, I learned that the decision is down to the Chief Constable (and who is "friends" are)

On my first attempt to get my MP's support, I received a standard reply about MP's not getting involved with Police operational matters!

It took forever and I felt quite deflated. I then came across an article about approaching MP's for support about sensitive subjects. I have employed methods, that I have had a greater success and he responds fairly effectively without me being too vexatious, persistent and pestering (would I dare be!). 'Not me gov!'

I'm not an authority on this but . . .

Your MP has a mind to the next general election (and your vote counts, especially if you live in a marginal constituency). She/he is also aware of the oversight of MP's through the parliamentary affairs committee who may privately or publically rebuke any MP for not engaging with their voters. Everyone is aware of the 'fast track' career building MP, often they are the ones who ask stupid rhetorical questions during 'Prime Ministers Question Time' and do not spend a great deal of time dealing with the individual's concerns, but get their researchers to answer the constituent letters. A good constituency MP will rarely raise issues of a regional/local concern directly in parliament, only involving themselves with more important national questions. This said they often are more engaged with individual problems of their constituents.

I agree fully with RF and would support the 'engage with your MP' from the moment you either learn you are entered on the PNC or localised databases, especially if 'you' have had no involvement (and it is proven to be) in any criminal activity. If you feel uncomfortable about writing to them, then you can arrange a meeting at the local MP surgery and have a face to face discussion. Just remember that this might only be for an 1/2 hour appointment, so have you list of specific questions.

There is a website called 'writetothem' https://www.writetothem.com. From my experience it is very good. It's run by a 'not for profit' organisation which the government supports called 'MySociety'. When you use this secure service, your message is sent directly to you MP. Two weeks later they verify with you whether you have received a response. If you cannot find the telephone number for your MP's office, use this service and ask if the researchers/administrators from her/his office could call you to make an appointment.

The 'pally' side of the issue is a 'double edged sword'. If you can get your MP onside, they will write to the Chief Constable and ask them to evoke an 'exceptional case procedure' and give reasons why you think your data should be removed and the effect it has on your career chances. If they are too pally, they may be afraid of upsetting a Chief Constable, especially if you are in an area where it seems the local force are on a 'witch hunt' for certain offences.

Devon & Cornwall Constabulary spokes people seems to have a nightly slot on local BBC news, about the people they have arrested and the number of sex crimes in the counties; never any mention about any murders or other serious crimes. [I]'Every street corner, every house, every park . .[/I]' (so they lead us to believe in this generally crime free area) 'there is a paedophile or rapist'. I suspect if you were looking to re-locate in this area and watched the news, currently living in North Manchester or Bradford East, you would stay where you are feeling it is safer!

But I have digressed . . .

Simple message "Engage with your MP!"

**Lucky** · 22 January 2016, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Rights Fighter View Post

Ask to for an appointment to see your MP and explain this to him / her. Ask them if they can contact the Chief Constable in your area to ask that the allegation is not on your DBS check.

Brilliant advice. Seems it worked. +1 to you again !!!!

**Rights Fighter** · 22 January 2016, 11:25 AM

Thank you hunnibunns! It's my 21st birthday (again) and it's raining so your post has cheered me up!

**TotalNightmare** · 22 January 2016, 12:02 PM

Going through this process now myself.

I've requested my ACRO Police certificate first of all, to see if the "arrest on suspicion of rape" appears, which would essentially prevent visa-free travel to any English speaking first-world nation instantly.

The conditions for record deletion are:

1. You have no previous convictions and your biometric information is held due to a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND); or,

2. You have no previous convictions and your biometric information is held as a result of you being arrested and charged with a Qualifying Offence (serious offence), but you were not subsequently convicted; and,

3. You are able to evidence the grounds for making an application for the early deletion of your lawfully held biometric information.

Grounds for deletion are subjective but here is the guidance:

1. There is no set criterion for the deletion of records e.g. “beyond reasonable doubt” or “balance of probabilities”; it is for Chief Officers to exercise professional judgment based on the information available.

2. Chief Officers will consider applications on an individual basis and will not set retention periods for groups of individuals, however defined.

3. The following are examples of circumstances in relation to which the deletion of biometric information and a person’s PNC record should be considered by a Chief Officer;

• No Crime. Where it is established that a recordable crime has not been committed. For example, a sudden death where an individual is arrested at the scene and subsequently charged, but after post mortem it is determined that the deceased person died of natural causes and not as a result of homicide.

• Malicious/False Allegation. Where the case against an individual has been withdrawn at any stage, and there is corroborative evidence that the case was based on a malicious or false allegation.

• Proven Alibi. Where there is corroborative evidence that the individual has a proven alibi and as a result s/he is eliminated from the enquiry after being arrested.

• Incorrect Disposal. Where disposal options are found to have been administered incorrectly, and under the correct disposal there would be no power to retain the DNA profile. In such circumstances, consideration should be given to deleting the DNA profile, fingerprints and the PNC record. Deletion in these circumstances could also be the product of review within the criminal justice process, for example, the withdrawal of a caution.

• Suspect status not clear at the time of arrest. Where an individual is arrested at the outset of an enquiry, the distinction between the offender, victim and witness is not clear, and the individual is subsequently eliminated as a suspect (but may be a witness or victim).

• Judicial Recommendation. If, in the course of court proceedings, a Magistrate or Judge makes a recommendation that an individual’s DNA and fingerprints should be deleted. On such occasions, due consideration should be made in relation to the deletion of the PNC record.

• Another person convicted of the offence. If there is the conviction of another person for the offence then the Chief Officer may wish to consider the deletion of the biometric information and PNC record, providing there is no possibility of there being more than one offender.

• Public Interest. Where there is a wider public interest to do so.

My employment is subject to DBS checks, and even security background vetting in some roles (public office). Will be going down the FA route due to statement retraction.

**Rights Fighter** · 22 January 2016, 01:26 PM

A link to that info would be very helpful

Thanks

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