Confused and left alone - How can I help him from abroad?

[thisisinsane]

Hello!

I am very new to this and very confused and insecure as I dont know what is going to happen.

This case is very complex and as I am not British I dont know how the british system of justice works in detail.

But let me tell you what it is about:
My friend's daughter has accudes him of sexual abuse/rape which allegedly happened a few years ago. She is his eldest daughter (18), one of 4 kids, and one baby on the way. the parents have had problems with their daughter for a couple of years now because they wanted her to get a job, study for college, do housework and spend less money as she used to spend massive amounts on make up, sweets and other stuff.
As her mother is pregnant with the 5th child now she started making accusations, against BOTH of them, her father accusing him of rape, and against her mother accusing her of being a bad mother an not taking care of her kids. Her goal seems to be to make her father go to jail and have the other kids removed from her mother.

I am aware that those are two difficult cases regarding criminal law and social services investigations, but I need HELP!

His duty solicitor has not answered his calls or contacted him in three weeks and so I tried helping him find another solicitor.

- Are there any solicitors in the northern London area you can recommend?
- when trying to find a solicitor to represent him: does it matter if he is covering the costs himself or if the government does? meaning, do solicitors have bias of declining cases where the government pays?
- if he is oing to be charged, how long will it take until the case is being discussed in court?
- And what can I do to help him? If you have been in such a situation please tell me what he needs right now.

And last but not least, he is feeling suicidal at the moment as he is not allowed to contact his wife or kids. I am the only person who is there for him right now. if things get real bad and he is about to commit suicide, who am I supposed to call? besides the police... Last thing I want is blood on my hands.

[myhome]

Hi and welcome tot he forum though sorry you have had to find us. Sadly, revenge is a strong motivator for people to make false accusations. There are threads on here which will answer some of your questions - links below. (What is the relationship between you and the gentleman?)

Some solicitors will take legal aid work - but this is means tested - so is dependent upon your income/assets/savings, and some don't and you will have to pay privately.

If he is going to be charged it can be many months before the case goes to court - there are several stages to go through before trial.

The best way you can help is to be there for him and try to do some research for him. He needs to write down as much as he can possibly remember about the times when these allegations are supposed to have happened - alibis, friends/relations who were with him/was he even in the same county or country as her. Looking at FB and other social media sites she's on to see what she's posting. Screenshot these. Store everything electronically where the police can't get it if they seize his laptop etc.

Don't underestimate the support you will need as well. This whole thing takes a huge emotional strain on you too.

if he is feeling suicidal he needs medical/psychological help straight away, or he can call organisations such as the Samaritans.

Keep strong, keep posting and we'll help all we can....MH

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ist-solicitors

http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...at-happens-now

[whatsgoingon?]

Hi - welcome to the forum and well done for being there for your friend - he's going to need you. Myhome has already given you excellent advice.
I can personally recommend Gerry MacDonald of EBR Attridge 430-436 high Rd Tottenham London N17 9JB . Not only does he have alot of experience and expertise in this domain, but he works with equally excellent barristers. He also works on legal aid should your friend be entitled to it. You can see for yourself on the link Myhome gave you that several members have used him and recommend him.

As for social services... they seem to be a law unto themselves. I'm sure someone who has experience of dealing with them will be along soon.
All the best

[thisisinsane]

Thank you!

Thank you for the quick response. I did a lot of reading about the british justice but it is very difficult for me to understand everything in detail.

He is yet to be charged, so I dont know whether I should encourage him to fight especially for his other kids, or try make him relax before the most dificult part beginns.

I have read the thread about solicitors recommendations weeks ago and contacted Mr. McDonald. He replied very quickly but when my friend tried making an appointment he couldnt make it to his office in time, and has not answered my friends calls or messages since then. Does that mean he is not willing to represent my friend? do we have to keep looking for other solicitors?? I read so much good stuff about McDonald, and I would feel SO SO SO RELIEVED if i knew he was taking his case...

[Casehardened]

He is yet to be charged,

Does that mean he is not willing to represent my friend? do we have to keep looking for other solicitors?? I read so much good stuff about McDonald, and I would feel SO SO SO RELIEVED if i knew he was taking his case...

If your friend requires legal aid (rather than paying the solicitors fees himself) then solicitors cannot apply for legal aid on his behalf until and unless his is charged with the offence.

Some solicitors may offer free initial advice but I'm sure you will understand that not all firms will be able to do this especially if they are busy.

If he is charged, then you will find much more interest from solicitors in taking the case on!

[whatsgoingon?]

It could be he's very busy at the moment as he deals with some very challenging criminal cases. Also, if your friend is going to be asking for legal aid, I don't think the solicitor gets paid for any work prior to the client being charged. If he does so , then it's out of the goodness of his heart, so to speak.

I would advise your friend to send him an email (explaining you've been in touch etc) asking him to confirm that he is willing to represent him should he be charged and whether he could have a preliminary interview with him , even if it's over the phone. I think it is worth persisting.

As for being abroad, this is /has been the case of several members (myself included) - you have to read up. Which legal system are you familiar with? You may want to start with something not too challenging like Wikipedia or another general law site. Sexual offences are currently tried under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 (with up-dates). This link will give you details.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

The CPS site is also very informative but not for the faint hearted as it is aimed at prosecutions.

As for directly helping your friend, you should encourage him to do the actual communicating with others eg lawyer, social services etc himself as this will be required of him. He SHOULD NOT speak to the police without a solicitor present. Offer him as much support as you can in terms of communications, skype etc. going to visit him if possible. As far as committing suicide... he can't! He's got children. It's a really tough situation to be in, but it's only through actively fighting for the truth that he'll come out of it positively.

I think he needs to be immediately active as far as his kids go - but take really good advice before doing so. Other members have been through this and should be able to advise.

Families need fathers is probably a good source of information and help - they'll at least be able to point you in the right direction, http://www.fnf.org.uk/

All the best.

[thisisinsane]

He was had an apointment but unfortunately the solicitor couldnt make it to the office. Now my friend has not heard from him since then, and nobody answers his calls. Thats whats making me worry. However I do think Gerry McDonald is the best solicitor he can have and he shouldnt give up.

About suicide.... I'm not sure his chrildren are a reason to keep him from ending it all.
He has had a very difficult life from the age of 6 and as much as i would like to tell him otherwise, things always seem to get worse for him. When I was 19 I had an accident and he saved my life. We have been in touch since then and became very close friends, to me he is almost like my own father or brother. I dont know his family but I know him (probably better than his wife or kids) and i know what he's been through and I know he loves his children, even the daughter accusing him. But I also know he feels he's a burden to everyone and his family would be way better off without him. The only reason he is alive at the moment is me, as i'm the only person he can talk to.
I'll fly there next thursday and we skype every afternoon and night but I'm worried whats going to happen when I start my job in 2 weeks and cant be there for him as much as he needs me.
I am very scared of losing him. He has become very important to me.

i encouraged him to see a solicitor for family law tomorrow, but I dont know how he is going to pay for that as he is already in debt. Fact is he cant afford legal advice but losing his kids will kill him. After that he will have to do an interview with social services and he's very afraid of that. When the social services interviewed his wife and kinds they tried twisting their statements, and put his wife under pressure as she did not support her daughters accusations. After that her daughter turned on her, ran away and now started accusing her mom of being a bad mother, being suppressed by her husband etc...

Everybody seems to believe her, as my friend said "she has everything under control and there is no point in going on".
I dont know how to keep this man alive. I'm so distressed

[thisisinsane]

legal aid

About legal aid:

I did some reading and as far as I've understood it means the government will cover your solicitors fees but only a certain amount? So it might still be possible that he cant afford a good one, right?

I am concerned that the only ones he might get to represent him are not going to put much effort into his case, and only do the minimum after i read the following statement:
"Jeanette Miller of J S Miller Solicitors, says: "Lawyers will not prepare a legal aid case in the same way as if you were funded privately." Even in murder defences, she says, "it will be a case of the bare minimum being done."

I have absolutely no idea how high costs would be for such a case and how much legal aid covers of that. Can anybody please give me figures so i get an idea?

[myhome]

Not all solicitors are the same - many legal aid solicitors do a brilliant job....

Quotes for paying privately range from £12,000 - to £50,000 or more depending on the complexity of the case and the length of the trial.

With regard to your friend's mental health, I would strongly advise that he refers himself to his family doctor and asks for very urgent Community Mental Health Team referral....and please don't forget that you yourself may need some support too as it can be mentally and emotionally exhausting supporting someone through this horrendous experience....MH

[thisisinsane]

Oh wow. That is far more that I expected. Wow.

I know he won't go see a doctor unless i force him to when im there. How does it work in England? Do we call the GP in the morning and go there or do I have to make an appointment? Can he go to any or does it have to be a certain one?

[myhome]

If he is resident in the UK he will already be registered with a GP (General Practitioner) practice and have an allocated doctor. He will need to phone or go in to the surgery and ask for an appointment. If there is a GP there he knows well or who is particularly good with mental ill health, he can request that particular doctor. Many of us on here have found our GP to be a great source of support, and they can also refer your friend to the Community Mental Health Team.

There is also an organisation called The Samaritans which is a free organisation that your friend can phone at any time of the day or night - link below...

http://www.samaritans.org/

[thisisinsane]

His daughter has been to the GP and so he doesnt want to go there (said the GP would be on her side or something ...)
I tried to convince him but he just doesnt want to go. Says if he goes there it will look like he is mentally unstable and make his case worse. Maybe he's right

[myhome]

His GP should be completely impartial but if s/he isn't then your friend can ask to see a different GP in the practice.
With regard to making his case look worse, if he attempted suicide and succeeded then everyone would say that he was guilty then and couldn't face up to it. If he attempted suicide and failed (ie he survived the attempt) and the police got to hear about it, they would probably put him in protective custody straight away for the duration of the investigation (which can take 18 months or more - but can also take less) so that he doesn't do it again....suicide attempts are a lose-lose situation for absolutely everyone concerned - especially those left behind - perhaps you could point this out to your friend. Also suicide is a Permanent solution to a Temporary horrible situation..............

[Rights Fighter]

His GP should be completely impartial but if s/he isn't then your friend can ask to see a different GP in the practice.
With regard to making his case look worse, if he attempted suicide and succeeded then everyone would say that he was guilty then and couldn't face up to it. If he attempted suicide and failed (ie he survived the attempt) and the police got to hear about it, they would probably put him in protective custody straight away for the duration of the investigation (which can take 18 months or more - but can also take less) so that he doesn't do it again....suicide attempts are a lose-lose situation for absolutely everyone concerned - especially those left behind - perhaps you could point this out to your friend. Also suicide is a Permanent solution to a Temporary horrible situation..............

Excellent reply MH

Some people are entitled to full legal aid (if they are on benefits or very low paid job - there will be an eligibility calculator online). Some people have to 'contribute' toward legal aid. Solicitors and barristers are now paid by the case, not by the hour, so they cannot be expected to work hundreds of hours on a case if they are not paid to do so. It's rather like asking a plumber to install a boiler then paying him the price of putting a washer on a tap.

If a client wishes to pay privately they are paying for the extra time, and also potentially services of other experts that legal aid might not pay for, for instance a private investigator, if one is needed. Some solicitors/barristers will charge £100K while others charge a lot less. You need to shop around for the best in the field at the most competitive price, if your friend can afford to pay.

The downside is, if he is eligible for legal aid, but chooses to pay privately, if he gets a not guilty verdict he cannot make an application for costs (to get reimbursed). So basically he is paying for the privilege of being proved not guilty.

My recommendation is Gerry McDonald, who has already been recommended. As has been said, if he has not yet been charged then there is no legal aid for any early advice or letters. Some solicitors will do this as a goodwill gesture if they have time - obviously if they are busy they cannot do this. Some solicitors won't give anything away.

[thisisinsane]

I'm sorry, i know I might sound stupid but just to be sure:
How much does (full) Legal aid cover if he choses his own solicitor and not the one he was given when he was questioned the first time? I have read so much about it but cant find any figures on that. I feel overwhelmed by the amount of information i found but still not sure how to make sense of all of it. I guess it just takes time and reading it over and over again.
It seems to be quite different from our legal system here: Once being questioned by the police we have a right to speak a solicitor as well, usually a duty solicitor. If we cant afford another, we are going to be represented by this duty solicitor for the rest of the case, but have the right to apply for a change of duty solicitor if he does not qualify in that special field or if there is a feeling of miscommunication between client and solicitor. after that we are entitled to chose to either stick with the duty solicitor or a solicitor of our own choice. Duty slicitors are being paid by the government but get reduced fees so obviously the interest and effort put in these cases is rather low. when chosing another solicitor and being entitled to something similar to legal aid, we have to pay all the extra fees ourselves, the gov. only pays them as much as they would pay a duty solicitor.

The GP has been present at the social services interview with the accuser and his other kids so he feels uncomfortable around him/her. I do understand that. still trying to convince him to get a simple health check though: heart, blood pressure, etc... he stopped eating and loses weight very quickly.

I made him promise not to leave me by comitting suicide but... as many of you probably experienced, there are downs and very low dows, once you have a super down moment your brain stops working and you just go numb. I'm worried what might happen when I'm not around.