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Thread: What evidence do you need to arrest someone for rape?

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    Default What evidence do you need to arrest someone for rape?

    In the case of a one night stand for instance where someone says they changed their mind. What evidence would police need, would it be one persons word against the others? Or would you need more? Scotland law by the way.

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    In terms of arrest (and in some cases charge and conviction) all that is needed is for a complaint to be made to the Police. It can be a lottery - many guilty go free and many innocent end up convicted. This is true of both English and Scottish cases.

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    Am a bit lost in all this and am wary about writing what has happened, but thanks for your reply.

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    Hi Izzy
    The fact that you are posting in the Falsely Accused section leads me to believe that you or someone close to you has been falsely accused.
    If you post up the bare bones of your story there will be plenty of people offering support. Just don't put any identifying features in your post. If you get nervous one of us Mods can always edit or delete what you have written if you want us to.
    Welcome, by the way!

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    Well, the "evidence" required in a case of rape or sexual assault is basically a statement from the accuser. Of course there may be further evidence in genuine cases such as DNA or injuries, but corroborative evidence is not required. If I were to wander into a copshop now and state that I wished to make a complaint of rape that would be enough to ensure the arrest and interrogation of the person I was accusing.

    Complainants are given an extensive medical exam (unless the allegation is historic, ie: from months/years ago) and are they interviewed, but if they can name the "rapist" an arrest is certain to follow.

    If the person who was accused was kept at the station for 2 days it could be for any number of reasons. Possibly they were still busy talking to the accuser; they might have been waiting for a specific officer to be available. My hubby attended voluntarily the same day as the allegation was made and he was kept in for 24 hours. He spent quite a lot of that time waiting for someone to become "available" to question him. I think this is a common tactic - keep you waiting so that you are mentally worn down by the time they decide to talk to you.

    Don't feel pressured into posting what has happened. Take your time. It's a scary thing to have to put into words.
    Last edited by Saffron; 6th January 2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Karnt spel

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    The complainant making a witness statement is "evidence". If she "told" other people immediately after the alleged assault then those other people would be known as "recent complaint" witnesses. So that's more "evidence". Evidence in law but not in common sense terms of course.....
    http://www.chrissaltrese.co.uk ~ Chris Saltrese solicitors - specialists in defending false allegations of sexual offences at trial. Sadly at present he cannot undertake trials on Legal Aid.

    Tel: 01704 535 512

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    Ah, I see what you mean.

    Have never been on the wrong side of the law, nor has anyone close to me.

    Am shocked by how this person has been treated, when I spoke to the Detective today I said I thought it was supposed to be Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around, that was when he hut me with the ' we wouldn't arrest anyone without evidence'

    Apparently this has no time limit either, as he was 'liberated' there is no time limit for investigation.

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    hi Izzy,
    welcome to the forum, sorry you have to be here because of this. If you are wary about posting your story, you can read through other threads and see similar stories to you and you can see how outrageous it can be and yes, just one statement from the accuser can turn your loved one and your family's life upside down.

    In the meantime, you can ask specific questions that may be bothering you and slowly you can tell your story. It is always hard to tell stories about this situation. It is good that you found this forum as early as now. That is a good start for coping up with the situation. We all came here very unfamiliar with what was thrown to us; most of us would say we have never been in trouble with the law; and the police is not very helpful in assuring us what would be the next step.

    I hope the accused is on bail and not kept in the police station. Please update us.

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    Great reply Fighter. As ever, I am in awe that you give support to others whilst in the middle of your own nightmare.
    Last edited by Saffron; 7th January 2012 at 06:35 PM. Reason: I meant Awe, not aew...

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    She's great isn't she!!!
    http://www.chrissaltrese.co.uk ~ Chris Saltrese solicitors - specialists in defending false allegations of sexual offences at trial. Sadly at present he cannot undertake trials on Legal Aid.

    Tel: 01704 535 512

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    make sure you get one that deals with this sort of case, its important that they know the ins and outs.
    And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. Then made the world round .... and laughed and laughed and laughed ..

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    thanks Saffron and RF, now I wish I could do this as a full time job!
    hope you are all having a relaxed saturday night.

    Izzy, hang in there. I hope you can see your GP soon. It does take time for everything to get back to normal. Somehow it is normal to struggle.. if ever that make sense! For us it took us two weeks to somehow feel normal, even eating and sleeping has become a problem and my weight dropped as if I have run a marathon Hope you have somebody with you.

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    RFLH - I'm not sure who deals with this kind of case, am looking at phoning a Criminal Solicitor who has been in the job for a good while and has a good practice behind him, do you think that will be OK?

    Fighter - I am on my own and will be for a few weeks more and this isn't really the sort of thing you can speak easily to people about, I think that is why I found myself here. I saw my Doctor and have been given a weeks supply of tablets to take the edge off. I know what you mean about the weight though, I can't seem to eat a thing but have taken up smoking again after being stopped for 10 years.

    Thanks for replying,

    Izzy

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    if you put your county up - hopefully someone will be able to suggest one in the right area for you.
    And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. Then made the world round .... and laughed and laughed and laughed ..

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    Izzy, you mentioned that the person who is accused comes under Scottish Law; did they have a solicitor present at their initial police interview?

    If so, perhaps you could have a chat with that solicitor; they might possibly recommend a colleague who specialises in that particular field of expertise.
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

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    My case is based in Scotland...

    I attended the Police station voluntarily, was detained, questioned and charged.

    The following afternoon (25 hrs later) I was 'liberated' (if you can call it that!) on Police bail JUST before climbing the stairs into the courtroom. Literally JUST before going up the stairs!

    I was bailed for 1 week and to return to court and see what was happening.

    My solicitor said this was unusual.

    A week later and my solicitor didn't even know I was supposed to be there. Apparently the type of bail, an 'undertaking', was only heard in court on a Thursday and it was a Tuesday... The Police bail was either to be dropped or court bail imposed.

    After a very very long wait the solicitor appeared, invited me into a room, read a brief summary of evidence and then I entered a courtroom for a private hearing. Court bail was approved, with conditions, and I was free to go.

    Since then several things have transpired but they are detailed in my long and selfish posting:

    http://www.daftmoo.org.uk/mooforum/s...ppy-to-discuss.


    If you're as stressed and sleepless as me then maybe you'll have time to read it. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. I may also be able to have some of your questions answered by my solicitor indirectly as I will be meeting with him shortly.

    You will stumble upon 'corroboration' in your searching. Don't read this as a positive, it's been corrupted beyond recognition and what previous posters have said is true. A statement and a 'sighting' of the accuser by someone a short time after is enough to have you dragged in.

    I never committed the alleged crime and felt that DNA would clear my name. It came back 'inconclusive' which basically backs up my position but even this is not enough!

    It seems heavily stacked in the accusers favour. There should hopefully be lots of consideration whether to continue from the CPS and Police. They may decide not to and it will be NFA (no further action). It could also go to trial where the fate of the case is left in the hands of the jury unless the CPS/accuser/witnesses make an ass of things.

    At the moment it'll be a case of waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.......

    I feel actually being in jail just now counting down days to release would be easier! Least then you know that although your life is at a standstill just now it will pick up again where it left off on day 'x'. Just now, day 'x' could be years and years away or a couple of days or weeks or months, it's a killer.
    Wow... A signature option!

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    PS: If you give a general area then others will recommend a solicitor. It is paramount that the solicitor is highly experienced in the field of rape.

    You may only get one chance (the trial) and it is massively important that it is taken to the extreme by an experienced legal team. It's a matter of life or jail!
    Wow... A signature option!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casehardened View Post
    Izzy, you mentioned that the person who is accused comes under Scottish Law; did they have a solicitor present at their initial police interview?

    If so, perhaps you could have a chat with that solicitor; they might possibly recommend a colleague who specialises in that particular field of expertise.
    No, a solicitor was contacted and told he was in custody but he was questioned without one - think he was in shock and was quite happy to tell them what had happened as he had nothing to hide.

    lawlessone2009, you are really kind to want to help when you are going through so much.


    I don't want to put where I am from as I have noticed my thread comes up in search engines.

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    that's fair enough Izzy, there's no pressure to disclose.
    And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world. Then made the world round .... and laughed and laughed and laughed ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    No, a solicitor was contacted and told he was in custody but he was questioned without one - think he was in shock and was quite happy to tell them what had happened as he had nothing to hide.
    Hi again,

    Did you mean he agreed to be questioned without one? I know that until recently in Scotland the police were able to question suspects for 6 hours without allowing them access to a solicitor, however this is no longer the case.
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casehardened View Post
    Hi again,

    Did you mean he agreed to be questioned without one? I know that until recently in Scotland the police were able to question suspects for 6 hours without allowing them access to a solicitor, however this is no longer the case.
    I think I maybe worded that wrong - he was happy to answer their questions without one. As someone who has never been in trouble before he was happy to co-operate and at the end of it was arrested. After being kept in custody for two days all the evidence and statements were sent to Edinburgh, where they decided to liberate him and not put it through court 'pending further investigation'

    Thats where we are up to now, living in limbo, have made a solicitor appointment to try and get some legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    - he was happy to answer their questions without one. As someone who has never been in trouble before he was happy to co-operate and at the end of it was arrested.

    Thats where we are up to now, living in limbo, have made a solicitor appointment to try and get some legal advice.
    Yes, I do understand why he would do that; however as lawlessone mentioned earlier in the thread, now that you are getting a solicitor, it is important to consult a specialist in false accusations.
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

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    I don't know if this sol is still practising but he was recommended to me some time ago
    I think it was George or John Burnett

    BURNETT CHRISTIE KNOWLES MCCOURTS (BCKM)

    53 GEORGE FOURTH BRIDGE, EDINBURGH EH1 1YH, SCOTLAND

    tel: 0131 225 3456 fax: 0131 225 6543
    email: mail@bckm.co.uk
    http://www.chrissaltrese.co.uk ~ Chris Saltrese solicitors - specialists in defending false allegations of sexual offences at trial. Sadly at present he cannot undertake trials on Legal Aid.

    Tel: 01704 535 512

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    Thanks to both of you. I'm further north than Edinburgh, would maybe be better with someone locally? - would help if I would post where I am, sorry for that.

    The solicitor I have an appointment with is a Criminal one - don't know if he has experience with false allegations but apparently has been on the go for a while.
    I need to get a clear head and write down my list of questions to ask him.

    Izzy x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    If you are arrested, kept in custody but it doesn't go through court as they need more information/evidence, why would you arrest someone in the first place?
    Hopefully Lawlessone will see this and answer, but from the English/Welsh perspective the main reasons are so you can be detained for interview (with no arrest it's a voluntary interview from which the interviewee can walk out at any time) compulsorily fingerprinted, swabbed for DNA, and bailed (with the resultant obligation to return)

    It may be different north of the border.
    'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger'

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    I know these are probably silly questions but I can't quite get my head around it. In Scotland-

    The difference between being arrested and charged - if you don't make a court appearence after being arrested are you still charged?

    Is the evidence required to arrest someone, the same as needed to charge someone?



    Izzy

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    Hi Izzy,

    Here one needs to be arrested and then charged before he/she has to go to court. If you dont appear in court, the hearing will continue without you and you can be jailed for not appearing.

    After the arrest, the police usually gathers more evidence to decide whether the decision is No Further Action (NFA) or being charged. The CPS has to decide based on the evidences gathered against you. A person can be on bail for some months before a decision is made. Maybe the Scotland Law has a faster process? I just know arrested here is not equivalent to being charged.

    I hope somebody from Scotland answers your question.

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    Thanks for that Fighter, seems to be a bit of a difference here in that after being arrested it didn't go into court and there is no bail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy View Post
    Thanks for that Fighter, seems to be a bit of a difference here in that after being arrested it didn't go into court and there is no bail.
    yes, definitely different, hopefully your solicitor will advise you of the process; of what will be happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casehardened View Post
    Hopefully Lawlessone will see this and answer, but from the English/Welsh perspective the main reasons are so you can be detained for interview (with no arrest it's a voluntary interview from which the interviewee can walk out at any time) compulsorily fingerprinted, swabbed for DNA, and bailed (with the resultant obligation to return)

    It may be different north of the border.
    Sorry, totally missed this thread as it's in General...

    Try leaving a 'voluntary interview' and you WILL be detained. This is exactly what I attempted to do. Section 14 of some piece of legislation (can't remember which) allows then to detain for questioning if they are of the opinion of something or another. You will not be walking out without either a Police Undertaking (bail) or an initial court appearance and bail. Worst case you ain't walking out at all!

    The arrest and charge are merely formalities for the cops to obtain your DNA samples, carry out a medical (if required) and hold you until someone somewhere takes responsibility for you and decides whether you're being remanded or bailed.

    In Scotland the charge more or less always follows arrest. Merely two words with the same eventual outcome.

    I was Police bailed to appear at court 7 days later. This was to allow, as you mentioned, some clown in Edinburgh (an EXPERT!) to decide whether to proceed or not with the charge. It's pretty much guaranteed that they will proceed as you can't be seen to be backing down so easily especially with a potential rapist on the books!

    Apparently the court has to refuse bail for this type of offence now... It's not happening though as they know that rape in Scotland is a difficult charge to prove which is why they are busy changing the goal posts and also attempting to kill off corroboration entirely even though it is already pretty much dead.

    Bail granted and then precognition takes place whereby the accuser and any witnesses give formal statements to a prosecutor dude. You eventually end up with copies through your solicitor which is generally where you will begin to see what the actual allegation entails.

    As far as I am led to believe they have 12 months from charging you to getting the case onto the court role (present the paperwork to enable a trial).

    I am not sure why the Police swapped their undertaking for Court Bail....

    I am also not sure why I made a first private appearance in court (except to be granted bail!).

    I've yet to see statements. Get em this Thursday...

    I'll hopefully have more answers on Thursday......

    Feel free to PM me just in case I miss this thread again, will attempt to remember...
    Wow... A signature option!

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